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Audio recording consists of a CBC radio show produced in Regina, Saskatchewan broadcasting a recording of Bridget Moran’s story entitled “A Child’s Christmas in Saskatchewan”. The unidentified male radio announcer introduces Moran’s story noting it is based on her memories of Christmas as a child in rural Saskatchewan c.1920s with her family. The male announcer notes that Moran “now lives in Prince George.” The story “A Child’s Christmas in Saskatchewan” is read by broadcaster Lorna Jackson.

Audiocassette Summary

• Jackson reads the story. Bridget provides memories of receiving the Eaton’s and Simpson’s catalogues and Christmas gifts by postal mail
• Moran’s Dad delivered the mail for a few extra dollars
• Moran recalls the Christmas concert; plays; carols, and the supper dance
• Moran recalls memories of sharing Christmas dinner with the Wright’ family who were Protestant Irish farmers

File consists of recorded audio interviews with Bridget Moran:

• Interview: Bridget’s Interviews re: Judgment at Stoney Creek with CBC/COOP/CKNW, 21-24 September 1990
• Interview: CBC re: Gove Inquiry, November (?) 1995
• Interview: CBC re: Justa, March 1995
• Interview: CBC re: Stoney Creek Woman, 24 November 1988
• Interview: Social Work 200A interview with Bridget Moran, August 1996

File consists of a recorded audio interview on CBC: All in a Day. All in a Day is an Ottawa-based radio program in existence since c.1975 described as “Ottawa’s drive home radio show brings music, news, current affairs, culture and conversation to listeners at the end of the work day”. This radio broadcast feature entitled “The Other Shelf” was hosted by Paul Mackan.

Audiocassette Summary

Scope and Content: Radio announcer Jennifer [?] introduces CBC radio broadcaster Paul Mackan in an episode of “The Other Shelf”, during which he provides a review of Bridget Moran’s books Judgement at Stoney Creek and Stoney Creek Woman and also provides a review of a third book, Aboriginal Peoples and Politics, by Paul Tennant. Mackan describes Moran’s books as ‘a great banquet’ that speaks to the strength of the human heart. He describes the story of Mary John as told to Bridget Moran; Mary John, a Carrier Indian woman, born in 1913 who describes growing up in poverty and prejudice in Stoney Creek, BC. Paul is intrigued by the ‘native way’ of storytelling and how it involves the listener in the story; and how Native people speak of events that happen to ‘our people’ – that tragedies are a shared experience. Judgment at Stoney Creek, Paul describes as a “tale of native people facing justice system in 1976’ and notes that Moran states this was the first case of prejudice in the justice system to reach national prominence. Mackan explains that the Native People of Stoney Creek had to fight to get an inquest into the accident which killed a 9 month pregnant native woman. Mackan notes that both of Moran’s books are recommended reading for high school students in both BC and the Yukon.He then proceeds to review Tennant’s book. He notes that all 3 books come at a significant time in white-native relations in Canada and refers to the Oka Crisis. He concludes that we must not only do “justice” by Aboriginal Peoples in Canada but “we must do ‘right’ by Aboriginal Peoples in Canada

This fonds illustrates Bridget Moran’s careers as a writer, a social worker and a social activist primarily within the Prince George region of British Columbia. This fonds also contains records pertaining to her personal relationships with family and friends and her receipt of various honours and awards.

Types of records reflective of her career as a writer include: published articles and unpublished manuscripts, drafts and front cover mock-ups, correspondence with editors from Arsenal Pulp Press, grant applications, notebooks, background material, writer’s workshop invitations and overviews, photographs, oral history interviews and transcripts, and VHS recordings of classroom talks given by Bridget Moran, Mary John and Justa Monk re: her publications.

Types of records reflective of her career as a social worker and social activist include: annual reports, work journals, correspondence and published newspaper articles re: social policy, photographs, and general background material. Correspondence, photographs and newspaper clippings highlight her personal relationships, while her receipt of honours and awards is demonstrated through copies of letters of recommendation, newspaper clippings, photographs, VHS recordings of award ceremonies, event itineraries, congratulatory correspondence, and invitations.

The Bridget Moran fonds has been divided into the following four series:

1. Published and Unpublished Materials
2. Career Related Materials
3. Personal Papers and Correspondence
4. Honours and Awards.

Audio cassette contains recorded audio interviews with Bridget Moran regarding Judgment at Stoney Creek with CBC/COOP/CKNW, 21-24 September 1990.

Audiocassette Summary

Scope and Content: CBC Radio Interview:

• CBC Radio Interviewer Bruce [last name?] introduces Bridget Moran who discusses her latest book Judgment at Stoney Creek, which describes the inquest into the death of Coreen Thomas, killed by a car driven by a drunk white man in 1976
• Moran discusses what she sees as “Third World conditions” experienced by Natives on reserves in Canada and discrimination against Native People by the Western justice system as experienced in the Thomas Inquiry in Vanderhoof
• Moran criticizes Prime Minster Brian Mulroney for the plight of Native Peoples in Canada; he had noted that the equivalent of $13,000.00 per year is spent on each Native person in Canada; Moran notes most Native people that she knows don’t see that money
• Moran notes that although she wrote Judgment at Stoney Creek in 1977, could not get it published as it was not considered “commercially viable”
• Bridget plans to write a book about her battle with the Social Credit Party
• Moran notes that this book comes out at a time [interview is during the Oka crisis] when Canadians have to be more aware of the need to settle land claim agreements with Native Peoples in BC and ensure that the environment is protected for the future; talks about massive logging and mineral prospecting occurring in BC which she notes concerns Stoney Creek Elders Mary John & Sophie Thomas
• Notes that few white people have been on reserves and have no contact with the Native way of life in Canada

Scope and Content: CKNW Radio Interview:

• CKNW Radio Interviewer Bill [Good?] introduces Moran and talks about the publication of the book. They discuss the status of native-white relations in BC both at the time of the Inquest into Coreen Thomas’ death and in 1990 at the time of the Oka crisis. Moran notes that natives in Canada don’t’ have the benefit of ‘the rule of law’ in Canada and experience injustice in the court system. Discusses the inquest; the role of Harry Rankin in the inquest. Moran concludes that only once Native People are involved in managing their own education, social welfare and political systems in Canada will conditions change.

Audio recording is of an CKPG-CBC affiliate recording at the Supreme Court in Prince George regarding the 60th anniversary of Judge J.O. Wilson being called to bar.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content:

• CKPG-CBC affiliate recording at the Supreme Court in Prince George
• Justice Harold McInnis talks about Judge Wilson’s achievements and his career On the 60th Anniversary of his being called to the bar
• Other members of the Supreme Court congratulate him on his anniversary including Judge McInnis & Judge Stewart
• Judge Wilson recalls his early years practicing law

Item is a recording of an audio segment from CBC Radio in which a documentary update is provided on the inquest of Coreen Thomas.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content:

• Update on the case of deceased Coreen Gay Thomas
• July 3, 1976 Coreen Thomas is struck and killed by a car walking out to the Stoney Creek Reserve
• Police Report blamed Coreen for causing the accident saying that she was involved in a game of chicken
• The Driver of the car, Mr. Redekopp, had a high blood alcohol content but was not blamed for the crash
• Indians claimed that they were frequently harassed on the road by white motorists
• An inquest occurred and focused on relations between Indians and Whites
• Redekopp, coroner, police detachment, federal department of Indian affairs all seemed to be on trial
• Vanderhoof residents state media coverage is sensational with Vanderhoof unfairly labeled as “the most racially troubled town in Canada”
• Some see problem as due to lack of activities for young people in small communities
• Stoney Creek Indians live in intolerable conditions
• Interview with Stoney Creek Reserve resident regarding sanitation problems; lack of proper sewage system; cases of tuberculosis; high rate of unemployment; she states DIA should be responsible and should come up with a solution
• Problem with the perception of an alcoholic society;
• Archie Patrick, FN leader talks about the prejudice, harassment and racism found in Vanderhoof and other Northern communities towards Native People
• Good things could come out of this inquest – Vanderhoof residents should learn about poor living conditions at Stoney Creek
• Reporter provides update on the inquest; that local Police were accused of intimidating the witnesses
• Coreen Thomas’ death was unnatural but accidental
• Redekopp was negligible because vehicle was going too fast
• Segment of interview with Harry Rankin on the Thomas’ inquest; questions on the state of fairness of the inquest; and the state of white-native relations in northern BC
• Inquest Findings: Measures that should be put into place: Upgrade emergency system in the area, no person be placed in morgue before death certificate is in issue, get resident doctor for hospital, breathalyzers taken as soon as is legally permitted, RCMP officers be encouraged to have parent or guarding present when questioning young people as witnesses, Stoney Creek Band Council and Vanderhoof Council work to establish a Friendship Centre

Documentary ends with interview of Sophie Thomas on need for a change in white-native relations – and ends with excerpt of music from the Vanderhoof ‘pioneer’ song.

End of Tape

Audio cassette contains recorded a audio segment from the CBC Radio program, Daybreak of broadcaster Alison Payne interviewing Bridget Moran on the recent publication of Stoney Creek Woman.

Audiocassette Summary
Context: The recording is a segment from the CBC Radio program, Daybreak of broadcaster Alison Payne interviewing Bridget Moran on the recent publication of Stoney Creek Woman.

Scope and Content: Alison asks Bridget to explain why she is labeled an ‘activist.’ Bridget recalls it comes from her public conflict as a social worker in 1964 when she criticized the WAC Bennett government of its lack of adequate services for foster children and welfare families. And that it was intensified by her open conflict in the BC Legislature in 1972 with the Minister of Welfare Phil Gaglardi, as Bridget, acting as a liaison for the Association of Social Workers and low income groups, criticized the government’s proposed passing of Bill 49 to amend the Social Assistance Act. (The Bill would, if passed, extinguish the right of appeal by welfare recipients if refused the right to services). Bridget recalls that because of the ‘noise in the gallery’ she made she was tossed out of the BC Legislature.

Alison asks Bridget about the book Stoney Creek Woman and why she felt the need to write it. Bridget explains she needed to write the book as she had felt ‘guilty’ about the plight of people on reserves her entire life – and refers to an incident in the 1950s when she had brought her mother Rose Anne Drugan to the Stoney Creek Reserve and revealed to her the plight of poor women on the reserve. Her mother made her promise to assist these women and Bridget states the book was a way to do this. The book about Mary John is a story of a “typical life” of people living on reserves. That it describes the nomadic lifestyle being changed to one of the ‘shock of the residential school’ and the ‘cultural genocide’ that followed. Bridget notes that it was Mary John who realized that Native People would need to speak for themselves to bring about social change.

Bridget speaks about her close relationship with Mary John; Bridget praises her work in trying to change the plight of her people on the reserve for the better and that it became a significant cause for Mary John after the death of Coreen Thomas. Bridget describes Mary John as a woman “dedicated to the world of emotions”

Alison notes at the end of the interview that the launch of the new book is to be held November 25, 1988 at Mosquito Books in Prince George.

End of interview

Audio cassette contains recorded audio interviews with Bridget Moran and Barbara Whittington on a CBC Radio program regarding the Judge Gove inquiry.

Audiocassette Summary

Context: The recording is a segment from a CBC Radio program with broadcaster Mark [Forsythe?] interviewing Barbara Whittington, professor of Social Work at the University of Victoria [on the telephone] and former social worker Bridget Moran on the telephone from Prince George. They are being interviewed about the recent report released by Judge Gove into the case of the death of a Metis child ‘Matthew’ [Vaudreuil]. The interview focuses on the need for reassessment of social workers and contract workers training and social work education in British Columbia to be coordinated by educators and the Ministry.

Scope and Content: Recording starts with interview in progress – Barbara is answering question by Mark on the findings of the Gove inquiry- that the judge captured the “sadness” of Matthews’ death in the report.

Bridget is then asked by Mark her views on the Inquiry’s report. She states that she didn’t have any problems with what the judge said – but that there is nothing experimental being done here. She notes however that no specific mention is made of the fact that Matthew was a Metis child in a poor family – and that this should have been addressed in the report and findings. Bridget refers to the fact that somehow ‘social workers got the wrong message’ – and refers to her work experience as a social worker that if children were seen at risk in a home then there were removed from their home.

Mark questions Barbara on how the inquiry may impact the teaching of social work. Barbara states she doesn’t’ think it will affect the teaching; and that the report had positive comments on the social work program at UVic – and refers to the working of a ‘decentralized model’ of work. However she notes that a Bachelor in Social Work needs to be seen as a ‘entry point’ only – and that comprehensive training between the University and Ministry [of Social Work] is needed.

Discussion of social worker salary; burnout; and the issue of utilizing contract workers is discussed. Bridget notes that she did some research into this 2 or 3 years ago – and that of the 2000-3000 social workers in BC – there was another 10,000 contract workers doing work ‘that don’t know what they’re doing’ – uneducated workers – dealing with the assessment of potential children at risk.

Barbara agrees that many are not well trained and not well supported and that a coordinated effort with the Ministry is needed so that burnout is addressed and that social workers get the support needed.

Barbara concludes that the report should have addressed the issue of contract workers more than it did. She also notes that it should have addressed the need for First Nations community training in social work
– and notes that there are many First Nations community members ‘ready to go’ with this training. Bridget agrees that this issue was not adequately addressed – and notes that about 60% of children in foster homes are aboriginal. She notes that if we ‘fail a person in one generation’ [as was Matthew’s mother] then we ‘fail children in the next generation’. Barbara agrees.

Mark thanks them both –

End of interview

Audio cassette contains recorded audio interviews from a CBC Radio program interviewing Bridget Moran in the CBC Prince George studio on the recent publication of Justa.

Audiocassette Summary
Context: The recording is a segment from a CBC Radio program with broadcaster Mark [Forsythe?] interviewing Bridget Moran in the CBC Prince George studio on the recent publication of Justa. Mark first speaks to Justa by telephone asking him why he wanted his story told.

Scope and Content: Mark notes that Bridget Moran has just published a new book about the life of Justa Monk, entitled Justa: A First Nations Leader. Before speaking to Bridget, he speaks to Justa by telephone and asks him why he wanted his story told.

Justa says he wanted to tell people about the story of his life but also about the hardships of his people; for example he notes the transportation in the early years was difficult and that it took 21 hours by horse to travel from Tachie to Fort St. James. Also he says that what had happened to him [killing his brother] changed his life. He points out that in particular the Elders wanted him to tell his story. [Mark thanks Justa and the interview ends]

Mark then introduces Bridget Moran and asks her to comment on why she decided to write the book. Bridget first notes that she had heard about Justa’s life while writing the story of Mary John and that many people had suggested that she should write a book about his life as well. Although she had seen him at community events (potlatches) she was not introduced to him until November 1991. At that time he introduced himself and asked her to write his story – because he believed that it is possible to make amends for a bad life.

Bridget goes on to describe the circumstances leading to Justa killing his brother in a fight and that alcohol had been a factor. Justa had contemplated suicide.

Bridget then explains the setting of where Justa lived at Portage on Stuart Lake, 150 miles from Prince George. She notes that in many ways it was a very traditional life, totally dependent on the land. She says that Justa felt it was important in telling his story to tell native youth of ‘what they had – and what they had lost’.

Bridget then tells how Justa had been sent to a residential school at the age of 10 and that when he arriving the priest & nun took away his clothes. When he asks why – in Carrier – the only language he spoke – he was hit by the priest.

Bridget then talks about the structure of the book and notes that “what I was really doing was oral history.” She notes that she starting out interviewing him first because she notes she didn’t know him very well – but that it progress she then just talked with him. Bridget comments that Justa is a ‘real communicator’ and uses body language well – and she noted that he could remember details and emotions very well which gives a “sense of immediacy” to his story.

Mark asks Bridget to explain how Justa went from killing his brother – to becoming a leader of his people. Bridget notes that although it was felt he acted in self-defense, that Justa felt that he had to do penance for what he did. He was charged with manslaughter and served his time in a Forestry camp. After that he decided to go back to school and finish his education in Dawson Creek. He then decided to come back to Tachie to ‘make peace with his people’ and that the Elders forgave him and accepted him.

Justa then went on to work in the Band Office, then as Manager, then as Chief and in 1990 was elected as the Chief of the Carrier Sekani Tribal Council.

Bridget states that Justa’s legacy for native youth in particular – is that you can overcome hardships and turn your life around. Bridget notes that instead of drugs and alcohol that youths should look to their culture, language and Elders to help them.

Bridget then notes that her hope is to now hold workshops to help First Nations document their own history. To show them how they can take ‘raw material that I start work with’ and ‘work it up into a readable story.’ She hopes to hold workshops with Bands so that they can ‘do it for themselves’ – particularly as so many of the Elders are sick and dying and won’t be around to tell their stories.

Mark thanks Bridget –

End of interview

Item is a recording of an audio segment from CBC Radio in which CBC Reporter Karen Tankard provides a documentary report on the CBC Radio program Daybreak on conditions on the Stoney Creek reserve, outside of the farming community of Vanderhoof, 15 years after the inquest into Coreen Thomas’ death in Stoney Creek, BC. Tankard interviews community residents about the inquest and discusses the state of racism in the town of Vanderhoof, BC in 1991 and concludes improvements have not been made.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content: Tankard recalls that Maclean’s Magazine had written at the time of the inquest that “Vanderhoof was one of the most racially prejudiced towns in BC”

Tankard recalls Inquest of Coreen Gay Thomas’ death and includes archived interviews from the 1976 inquest. One Vanderhoof woman says people are putting “racial connotations’ around what is going on in Vanderhoof and that she has ‘many friendships’ with native people that ‘is not unusual’ While Minnie Thomas, a Band Councillor in 1976, discusses how poor white-native relations are on reserve and criticizes the state of housing and the economy on the Stoney Creek reserve

Tankard then talks to students at a dance on the reserve on Sept 15, 1991; she notes there is no high school for the native students. Native student Kevin Prince notes that “white kids don’t like native kids…”

Jackie Thomas who works at the Band Office states that the feelings of racism still exist here in 1991 Yet Vanderhoof Alderman Jack French states that he “doesn’t see it” in Vanderhoof now. Tankerd notes that Native people recall that the Inquest “shamed” the federal government into making some changes – some municipal services now exist and roads are paved in Stoney Creek, yet there is still 80% unemployment and a rise in drug and alcohol abuse. Gordon Smedley, editor of the Nechako newspaper discusses white-native relations 15 years after the inquest – and argues that a ‘core group’ of drug users impacts the image of natives in the community

Stoney Creek Elder Mary John argues that racism still exists and refers to how in the case of one native woman, who was a university graduate that she could not get even a clerical job in Vanderhoof

Vanderhoof resident Hugh Millard – argues that native residents from Stoney Creek are “not hampered by prejudice, but by a lack of education”

Bruce Smith, high school principal, expresses the challenges of keeping native kids in school; that activities have focused on liaison work with the Band. Smith notes the creation of the Yinka Dene Language Institute as means to keeping native students in school - seen as a ‘storefront’ school for adult education

Tankard notes RCMP also attempting to make changes and have hired a native constable

Yet Alderman Jack French notes there is not a lot of contact between the municipal council and the Stoney Creek Band Council – however argues that the municipality has avoided getting involved in such issues – “not our mandate” – the municipality’s mandate is to provide municipal services only.

Tankard recaps the findings of the Inquest – and questions if anything has really changed in Vanderhoof and Stoney Creek since the inquest.

While she recalls that Richard Redekopp was charged with criminal neglect that resulted in Thomas’ death – that due to a lack of evidence he was not convicted

Tankard surmises that perhaps the hope of the inquest that a reunion of white-native community in Vanderhoof and Stoney Creek was ‘too much’ and ‘unachievable’

End of documentary report by Karen Tankard

The Daybreak female radio broadcaster (unidentified) then invites Talk Back listeners to call in on the issue…..

End of tape

File consists of:

• Transcript of interview with "Teresa" by Bridget Moran
• 1 Audiocassette: Interview with Teresa, taped July 11/91 [TDK SA-100 audiocassette]
• Annotated draft - "Teresa" written by Bridget Moran
• Note paper with addresses and names
• Emily Fry Society brochure: "I want the violence to stop!"
• Emily Fry Society brochure: "The Specialized Support Services"
• Emily Fry Society brochure: "Family Violence: Wife Abuse"
• Summary of women involved in the book
• List of writers
• Overview: Local women's stories of battering submitted by Jenny Owston, Specialized Support Services Coordinator, Elizabeth Fry Society
• Factsheet: "Wife Assault in Canada"
• Factsheet on physical and sexual violence published as part of the Domestic Abuse Intervention Project.

File consists of recorded audio interviews:

• Interview: CBC Radio re: Judgement at Stoney Creek, September 1991
• Interview: CBC Update re: Inquest, September 1976
• Interview: Sophie Thomas, September 1991

Audio recording is of an interview by Bridget Moran with Margaret [Granny] Seymour at the PG Hospital in 1962. Moran later noted in another recording that the interview with Margaret Seymour was part of her social work. At the time of the interview Granny Seymour states she is 109 years old and says she is to celebrate her 110th birthday in June.

Audiocassette Summary

Scope and Content: Interview continues between Bridget Moran and Granny Seymour

• She talks about hard work that she performed at the [HBC] store
• Granny describes trapping at her own trap line
• Sometimes had more on her trap line than her husband had on his
• Talks about birth of her children at Hudson’s Bay in Ft St James and having to birth them on her own or with the help only of her sister [Nellie?] – as there was no doctor available
• Very skilled in medicine
• Everyone came to her for help
• Lived at Hudson’s Bay Post in Fort St. James
• Talks about employment
• Describes early South Fort George – when there were no houses at all; early residents including Charlie Ogmann [sp?]
• Granny notes her children never went to school but learnt quickly
• She learned how to speak French as her father was French
• Granny speaks about her mother – who is described as an “Indian Princess”
• Talks about husband Billy Seymour’s work; Granny describes building her own house at Fort George cutting and hauling down trees by hand

Tape ends

Audio recording is of an interview by Bridget Moran with Margaret [Granny] Seymour at the PG Hospital in 1962. Moran later noted in another recording that the interview with Margaret Seymour was part of her social work. At the time of the interview Granny Seymour states she is 109 years old and says she is to celebrate her 110th birthday in June.

Audiocassette Summary

Scope and Content:

• Talks about a flood in Fort George
• Went on a canoe from Fort St. James to Fort George
• Clothing and food that Granny Seymour grew up with
• Living at Fort St. James
• Discusses the poverty of the First Nations after moving to Shelley
• Discusses the priest who came to the reserve often
• Would cook dinner for the priest as often as she could
• Discusses memories of being a child and living in Fort St. James
• Traveling to Vancouver
• Police presence in Fort St. James – no police; She notes there was no police presence – the HBC boss provided policing. Recounts memories of one native at Ft St James who killed his boss
• Traveling to Fort Fraser by dog team
• Step dancing – remembers dances at Ft St James with the HBC crew
• Cleaning houses - Remembers taking care of house at Hudson’s Bay fort in Ft St James
• Health – talks about her health Visitors to Granny – Priest comes sometimes [to visit her now at the hospital]
• Did not go to school
• Discusses memories of her parents James Bouchey and her mother and her siblings
• Seymour’s first husband worked for HBC Ft St James was a white man Edward Flameau- unhappy memories of her marriage
• Seymour’s second husband was Billy Seymour – happier memories
• Getting caught in a forest fire and a big storm coming from Ft St James
• Talks about looking after Hudson’s Bay store and trading for sugar/tea

Tape ends

Reel-to-reel audio recording consists of individual taped interviews conducted by Bridget Moran with a number of early Fort George residents recalling the early years of white settlement in Prince George c.1910-c.1915. Interviews were conducted with the following individuals: reel to reel recording of individual taped interviews and interview introductions by Bridget Moran with the following interviewees: Arnold Davis [former Sherriff for Prince George]; J.A.F. Campbell [PG land surveyor]; Alec Moffat; Claude Foot; Captain George Henry [sternboat captain]; Nellie Law [desk clerk at Alexandra and Prince George Hotel from 1918- 1952], John McInnis [former MLA for Fort George]; Georgina [McInnis] Williams; and Peter Wilson, [former Barrister and Solicitor and former Prosecutor for the City since its incorporation in 1915.] These interviews were incorporated into the publication: Bridget Moran, Prince George Remembered…from Bridget Moran, Marsh Publishing, Prince George, 1996.

Summary

Notes: Recording consists of individual taped interviews conducted by Bridget Moran and commentary by Moran that introduces each audio segment. Recording is exact copy of the written transcript later produced as the publication, Prince George Remembered…From Bridget Moran, Prince George: Marsh Publishing, 1996. In the publication foreword, Moran notes that she recorded the interviews on reels, then re-copied them on cassette tapes, and for the book project based on the recordings she did the edits and provided the introductory remarks for each interviewee’s audio segment.

See also the audiocassette summary for 2008.3.1.210.4 “History of Prince George”. The reel to reel recording is incomplete as it includes recorded interviews only for 61 minutes, not the full 80 minutes referred to in the audiocassette summary for 2008.3.1.210.4. The reel to reel recording continues only to the end of Claude Foot’s description of the bar at South Fort George [see transcript, Prince George Remembered… From Bridget Moran, p.25]

00’ 05”-5’00” Arnold Davis– talks about his family’s roots from Ireland and England and arriving in South Fort George in 1917;

5’10”-10’11” Claude Foot – talks about his family’s roots in New Zealand and memories of arriving in Quesnel in 1906, “very few white men”

10’12”-11’08” Alex Moffat – describes stage coach transportation throughout the Cariboo region

11’24”-12’33” George Henry describes working on the boats that plied the Fraser River with the BC Express Co.

13’17”-14’14” Nellie Law describes arriving in Quesnel from England in 1914 and later arriving in Prince George on the Fraser River in 1917. Law was the desk clerk at Alexandra and Prince George Hotel from 1918-1952.

14’45”-15’09” Peter Wilson describes arriving by work train to Prince George from McBride c.1915. Wilson was the Prosecutor for the City since its incorporation in 1915.

15’48”-20’02” Mr. John McInnis recalls arriving from Prince Edward Island in 1910 in Fort George due to the land prospecting for the town site. Describes 10 day horse & sleigh trip from Ashcroft to Fort George and briefly describes Indian Reserve in Fort George and recalls there were few white women in the town at that time.

20’25”-22’05” J.A. Campbell describes survey crew work he did at Fort George in 1908

22’16”-25’36” Captain George Henry recalls cruising down the Fraser River with a gas-powered boat c.1910 and losing crew overboard in the Fraser Canyon

25’47”-33’20” Peter Wilson recalls experiences as practicing lawyer and due to lack of assize court in Fort George until 1919 travelling to Clinton for court cases. Also describes difficulty of boat traveling to Peace River country to hear court cases there.

33’29”-39’24” Nellie Law recalls working first as a maid and then as a desk clerk with the Alexandra Hotel in 1919 and later the Prince George Hotel in 1923 – describes hotel guests; visit of Duke & Duchess of Devonshire; manual work performed including bouncing; stoking furnace in winter for heating.

39’45”-53’48” Alex Moffat – describes old Cariboo Road highway freighting and stage coach line at Barkerville and the ‘stopping places’ [roadhouses] on the Cariboo Road highway which his parents operated. Also describes Cataline’s pack train. Describes luxurious conditions on the BX sternwheeler boats.

56’10”-59’06” Claude Foot recounts a dance in Quesnel; card games and gambling at Barkerville 59’40”-1:00’58” Claude Foot recalls South Fort George and the ‘longest bar at South Fort George End of recording

End of recording

File consists of recorded audio interviews:

• Interview: History of Prince George - Bridget Moran Interviews George Henry & Arnold Davis interview, PG Historical Society, ca. 1960
• Interview: Granny Seymour Interview, Parts 1 & 2, May [1962?]
• Interview: Granny Seymour Interview, Part 3, May [1962?]
• Interview: History of Prince George, 1958-1959 and 1960
• Interview: History of Prince George, 1960; various dates
• Interview: CBC - 60th Anniversary Judge [Stewart] Called to Bar, [1982?]
• Interview: Ken Rutherford (Tape 1), 1 April 1993
• Interview: Ken Rutherford (Tape 2), 1 April 1993
• Interview: Paul Ramsey Interview, December 1995

File consists of interview audio recordings conducted by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk. Access copies have been made of each taped interview onto Maxell UR 90 min. audiocassettes.

Audio recording consists of an interview by Bridget Moran with James McCallum recalling his life, first in Scotland, then Montana and then as a wheat farmer in Success, Saskatchewan. McCallum (1891-1983) served on several community organizations including delegate of the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool (1938-1944) and director (1944-63). James McCallum died January 9, 1983 in Swift Current, Saskatchewan age 91.

Audiocassette Summary

• McCallum family moved from rural Scotland to Montana and later Success, Saskatchewan. James McCallum born in Scotland – Nov 12, 1891
• James’ family left Scotland c.1899 via the ship “Caledonia” and came to Montana
• In 1904 his father decided to move the family
• Recalls living in Montana
• Recalls night at the Shaw farm in Montana with horse thieves the night his brother Allan was born
• Discusses trek to Saskatchewan arriving first in Swift Current, Saskatchewan;
• Homesteaded in Success [District], Saskatchewan
• Family’s land was Government land
• Moved from homestead to another farm
• Recalls his schooling; public school in Scotland; private school in Canada
• Talks about ranching
• Discusses income of family
• Describes types of farm machinery and combines; walking plow
• Talks about boundaries for land – no fences etc.
• Provides memories of families from the community
• Recalls memories of his mother managing household on farm
• Recalls work with threshing groups
• Recalls beginning of the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool to ensure farmers received fair payment for sale of their wheat
• Recalls attending meetings as delegate for the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool at the Canadian Federation of Agriculture; meetings held in various locales from Montreal to Vancouver

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview by Bridget Moran with James McCallum recalling his life, first in Scotland, then Montana and then as a wheat farmer in Success, Saskatchewan. McCallum (1891-1983) served on several community organizations including delegate of the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool (1938-1944) and director (1944-63). James McCallum died January 9, 1983 in Swift Current, Saskatchewan age 91.

Audiocassette Summary

• Recalls Success neighbours; Frazer [sp?] a family immigrated from Russia
• Recalls father dying at age 96
• James and his wife Sadie moved into the elder McCallum family homestead in 1962
• Recalls first date with wife in 1912 at dance; famous storm same night killed people in Regina
• Recalls playing violin at dances with Jack Pickett
• Bridget asks his memories of the Drugan family [Bridget’s; James recalls when his wife Sadie and Bridget’s mother became friends. Bridget used to stay with Sadie’s mother.
• Recalls medical facilities in early years; recalls father having blood poisoning and being attended by [the elder] Dr. Graham

End of tape

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 05” Justa is talking about cutting wood for heat at home. He talks about wrecking his father’s axe. He continues to tell amusing stories about his childhood, which include his siblings and his father.

04’ 45” Moran asks Justa about how many employees he had when he was band manager. Justa talks about his work as band manager. They continue to talk about sawmills in the area. Justa discusses land rights as a result of the sawmills in their territory. Justa talks about tree farm licenses and the disputes between the band and the government. He talks about agreements the band has with Northwood Pulp and Timber Ltd.

16’ 35” Moran asks Justa about the note Theresa left him about being either a father or a band manager. They talk about this briefly.

18’ 23” Moran asks Justa about stories in his diary, such as trying to quit smoking. They talk about Justa becoming band leader. They continue to talk about Justa’s duties as general manager for the band and the politics surrounding the position.

25’ 14” Moran asks Justa about developing a school board for Tachie that is run by First Nations people. He wants to develop a proper curriculum that embraces the old way of life to maintain their culture.

30’ 40” Moran asks Justa why he stepped down as general manager for the band. Justa talks about someone else wanting the position. He also talks about the restraints on him. He talks about becoming tribal chief. He was given the mandate to deal with Kemano II, land claims, and developing forms of self-government.

41’ 15” Moran asks about the spread of AIDS in Tachie. Justa says, like cancer, it has spread because of stupidity. His people were healthy until the modernization of their society.

42’ 22” They return to discussing the opening of sawmills in the Tachie area, as well as tree licenses.

49’ 00” Moran asks Justa how many bands have dropped out of land claims issues. Ten remain, he tells her. They continue to discuss the issue of land claims.

50’ 47” Moran asks about when the tribal chiefs came together to have a common goal with regard to land claims. They continue to discuss land base, the progress of land claims, and the amount of people in each area. Justa talks about private companies entering their land and building private roads to log the area. They continue to talk about the politics of the position.

1:00’ 13” Moran asks Justa about his tribal chief position. He tells her it is a ‘twenty-four hour machine’ and to develop working relationships between the bands and the government, particularly with land claims and poverty issues. Justa continues to talk about his position.

1:09’ 11” Moran asks Justa which position he feels has helped his people the most. He tells her being band manager and tribal chief because he feels he has the right vision for his people that he can implement through clear direction and demanding certainty from the government, particularly with land claims. He talks about wanting to save the future of the nations and saving the river from the Kemano II Project. They continue to discuss the history of the Kemano II Project.

1:17’ 38” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 06” Justa is talking about the Kemano II Project and what he said in a meeting with the Ministers. He has asked them to stop the Project or they will face judicial review because they are basing the Project on a political basis, not a scientific basis. He says he feels he will win the case.

04’ 57” Moran tells Justa she is working on the chapter about when he kills his brother John. Moran asks Justa about what happened and he tells her all he remembers is when the cops arrested him. They continue to talk about what happened, though Justa’s memory is vague. Justa talks about his time in prison.

24’ 54” Moran asks Justa about when he moved to Fort St. James after he was released from prison. He moved to Dawson Creek after being picked arrested again.

27’ 58” Justa talks about moving back to Tachie, then going to work for BC Rail in 1970. At that time, he was hired as band manager.

28’ 50” They return to discussing the Kemano II Project.

32’ 20” Moran and Justa return to discussing the murder of his brother.

34’ 50” Moran and Justa talk about Brother Anderson, who worked at the residential school.

41’ 15” Moran talks to Justa about his brother Alec who passed away at a young age. The person who fell off a roof was a cousin.

42’ 30” Moran asks Justa about being left on Haldi Road when he was working at the rehabilitation camp. He talks about Haldi Camp and it was decent living conditions. There was no counselling offered.

47’ 57” Moran asks Justa if his troubles at that time were related to alcohol. He tells her that his fights were caused from drinking. He talks about his parents telling him they were worried about his drinking. He began to black out, but did not worry about it because he says he was young and did not pay attention.

49’ 55” After Justa left Dawson Creek, he returned to Tachie. Two weeks after he was home, Teddy was shot. They talk about the circumstances surrounding his death.

56’ 08” Moran asks Justa about his memories of Tachie when he started as a maintenance man in the 1970s. He says the roads were rough or hardly there. He talks about his job shovelling snow or pulling vehicles out of the mud. They talk about the Tachie community in the early 1970s. Justa talks about building the community up.

1: 08’00” Justa talks about his wedding to Theresa. Very few people attended the wedding. It took a long time for Justa’s family to recognize her as part of the family.

1: 12’ 54” Moran asks Justa about life in Tachie. Justa tells her things were done collectively, there was no division within in the community. He wishes the old way of life was still a part of the community. He talks about the love of ‘potlatch’ in the community. He talks about how the old way of life disappeared once the road was built.

1: 19’ 50” Moran asks Justa what he is working on. Justa says he is wrapping up the treaty process, budget proposals, and a couple other issues. He talks about Kemano II. He is serious about leaving his position because he has been neglecting his family. They continue to talk about the Kemano II Project.

1: 29’ 09” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’02” Justa is talking about the store in Tachie.

02’ 13” Moran asks Justa to clarify his different positions when working for the band, and when he served in those positions. He talks about the years he was band manager and tribal chief, and talks about these positions. He discusses the stress of the positions because of lack of funding.

16’ 29” Moran asks Justa about the different programs, such as water systems and education. Justa discusses getting the water system into Tachie. He discusses the details of trying to get the water system, particularly trying to get funding and getting the proper contractors. He talks about the stress of the position and how it affected his mind.

39’ 04” Justa talks about the differences between being a band manager and a tribal chief. He tells her there were no politics involved in being a band manager.

41’ 30” Moran asks Justa to draw her a map of Tachie and Sunnyside for the book, so she knows where everything can be found. Justa draws her a detailed map that includes the lake and the river.

52’ 34” Moran asks Justa about his week as a band manager and tribal chief, starting from Monday to Friday. He talks about his meetings involving contracts, social assistance, education, and other funding concerns. He reads from his diary to Moran.

1:02’ 55” Moran asks Justa about when Tachie received a telephone system. Justa talks about how he actually regrets getting a telephone and television system because of the loss of community.

1:08’ 55” Justa returns to talking about Kemano II.

1:14’ 59” Moran’s voice is muffled and incomprehensible.

1:16’ 35” Moran asks Justa for photographs for the book. Moran wants a subtitle for the book, so asks Justa for something in Carrier. Moran tells Justa that the CBC has asked why she is writing a book about him. They discuss the general details of the book.

1:26’ 17” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 01” Justa is talking about the Kemano II Project, which he states is a political issue, not an environmental one. He says the Project is a public issue now, not just a First Nations issue.

06’ 52” Moran asks Justa about when he was elected to tribal chief. He talks about the nominations process.

09’ 52” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 04” Moran is talking about book signings for Justa’s book.

00’ 27” Justa and Moran talk about board members for the Kemano II Project. They continue to talk about the Kemano II Project. Justa says the amount of pressure he is putting on the government, combined with public support, hopefully means Kemano II will be stopped. They continue to discuss the details and the politics surrounding the Project.

10’ 26” Moran asks Justa whether he was surprised or not when he lost the position of tribal chief at the last Assembly. He tells her he was not surprised. He talks about the first time he resigned from the position due to stress. He says the band knew he was tired, so did not want the position any longer. In a letter he wrote, he stated it was time for some new blood.

21’ 11” Moran asks Justa about his new position. He talks about being a contractor to Northwood Pulp and Timber where he liaisons between First Nations people and the company on employment concerns and tree sales. He talks about his position in more detail.

28’ 46” Moran asks Justa about how he feels about his life now. He tells her he feels good about what he has accomplished, but he needs a rest. He talks about his accomplishments throughout his career. He tells Moran he has no regrets about anything.

37’ 55” Moran asks Justa about his health issues and how he is feeling now.

38’ 57” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran is asking Justa about how he is feeling because he had a major heart attack. He talks about recovering from his attack in a week.

02’ 15” Moran asks Justa about what he thinks about the Gustafson Lake situation. He says he predicted it because the government has not been serious enough in negotiations for land claims. He does not believe in militant reactions and wants peaceful negotiations.

04’ 54” Moran asks Justa about what helped him get out of the ‘trench’ he was in after murdering his brother. He was able to carry on partly because he was forgiven by his family and the elders. He says the elders were the people who convinced him to plan for his future. He took their advice seriously, hence why he took on leadership roles.

07’ 15” Justa talks about taking a group of students to meet Gino (?), a hockey player. He says he wants to make things better for the young people because of alcohol and drugs, so believed the trip helped the students he took on the trip.

13’ 34” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’03” Moran asks Justa how the Department of Indian Affairs party went at Other Art Cafe.

01’20” Moran tells Justa she has a number of questions regarding his political career. They talk about the number of bands in the area.

05’ 11” Justa talks about the nomination process for becoming tribal chief at the annual Assembly. He talks about when he was nominated and how he believed that he was nominated based on his character. Moran asks about the culture surrounding the Assembly, including entertainment. Justa tells her he did not participate in any of the activities.

12’ 41” Justa talks about his mother loving potlatch.

14’ 35” Moran asks Justa about the personal qualities it takes to be tribal chief. He tells her he was nominated because the people knew and trusted him.

16’ 03” Moran asks Justa about the role he played in getting the Department of Indian Affairs shut down. He tells her about leading a mandate to close the Prince George office through lawyers and the support of his people.

25’ 18” Moran asks Justa about the development of a school board for the reservations. He wants the school curriculum to teach the language and the culture. He has negotiated with the federal and provincial governments to implement these plans.

29’ 13” Moran asks Justa about his role in land claims. Justa talks about negotiating with the government to get some of the land back to his people. He has played a big role, he says, because he knows the area, the language, and the people. He talks about the long, drawn out process of planning the land claims concerns. Justa has a mandate as tribal chief to address land claims. He says the important part of the process is educating the people, white and non-white.

45’ 49” Moran is talking about Alcan locating grave markers to compensate for the damage done from the original Kemano project.

47’ 47” Moran asks Justa the role he has played in the Kemano II Project. He tells her that he took a big role because he saw the way of life being destroyed, never mind the environmental damage. He says he hates the concept of the project. Justa talks at length about the politics surrounding the Kemano II Project.

1:07’ 55” Moran asks Justa about which politicians he has met in his time as tribal chief. She encourages him to drop names. He lists a number of provincial and federal politicians.

1:10’ 45” Moran asks Justa about the Oka situation and any role he played in helping to negotiate the situation. He talks about an emergency Assembly. He discusses supporting the situation and telling his own people that they should not protest with the people from Oka to maintain peaceful land claims negotiations. He says he had to keep things calm in his own territory while offering support.

1:13’ 30” Moran asks Justa about the referendum regarding self-government. They talk about which way they voted.

1:16’ 20” Moran asks Justa about the consecration of the graveyards that were flooded by Kemano. He talks about how emotional the ceremony was and how much it hurt to be treated like second-class citizens. One woman described it as being chased out like a pack of coyotes.

1:19’ 50” Moran asks Justa about running for tribal chief again because he has unfinished business with the Kemano II Project.

1:20’50” Moran talks about the chapters of the book with Justa. They discuss some of the stories Moran is writing within the book.

1:28’ 42” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran asks about when the roads were built to Tachie. Justa talks about the length of time it took to get to work from Tachie to Portage before the roads were built. After some people drowned, the pressure was put on the Department of Indian Affairs to build a road. Justa talks about his trips before the road was built.

07’ 42” Moran asks about why Tachie was not built around Stuart Lake but at the mouth of the creek. Justa gives a brief history of Tachie.

09’ 20” Moran asks Justa about the history of his father, particularly what his jobs were.

11’ 01” Moran asks Justa what Camp 24 is, where his mother and father stayed at times. It was a camp owned by the Roman Catholic Church where people could stay while they worked in the bush. Justa says the camp was more of a settlement. Moran and Justa continue to talk about the living conditions of Camp 24.

16’ 47” Moran asks Justa about his father’s mother. Justa never met his grandmother, even though his father continued to visit her. They continue to talk about the history of Justa’s parents.

20’ 10” Moran tells Justa she has heard there are no more gardens in Tachie today. Justa tells Moran that people no longer live off the land and that is why the gardens no longer exist. Justa says he feels lucky that he was able to experience life by living off the land. Moran asks about how home brew is made. Justa gives a list of the ingredients and how it needed to sit for twenty-four hours before being able to drink it.

25’ 00” Moran asks Justa about what his first memories of Fort St. James were. He talks about his childhood memories and his first experience in driving in a vehicle.

29’ 58” Moran asks Justa about how many families are in Portage. Fifteen to twenty are there, which Justa says is bigger than when he was growing up. There is a problem of over-crowding with about 300 people living there.

31’ 14” Justa talks about going into the cellar to collect stuff for his mother, such as jams. He talks about how his parents never ate any canned food, and always continued to live off the land. Justa continues to talk about the relationship between his parents and how happy they were together, how they rarely argued. When his mother passed away, his father passed away shortly after because he stopped taking care of himself.

36’ 44” Moran asks Justa about fishing. Justa talks about fishing from a reef in the fall. Justa would smoke the fish in a tent that other people had set up. He talks about living off the land, where nothing was wasted. In the winter, he would ice-fish.

41’ 00” Justa talks about how he enjoys going back to the old way of life and is looking forward to finishing his leadership position, so he can return to the old ways. He talks about rehabilitating his mind and body because he is burning out from his busy schedule.

43’ 06” Moran asks if she can talk to Justa’s sisters and a friend of his family. Justa tells her that his sisters are looking forward to speaking to her. They talk about the benefits of aging.

47’ 08” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran is talking to Theresa, Justa’s wife. Moran asks her what Corpus Christi means. Theresa tells her it is a place where First Nations people from the area planted trees in a big circle. It was a prayer circle where the bishop would say mass.

05’ 10” Moran asks Theresa about Sports Day in Fort St. James, which was more like a rodeo.

06’ 17” Moran is now talking to Justa. Moran asks Justa about trips to Babine Lake that Jimmy previously mentioned. Justa does not remember the trips, but he imagines they were very cold.

09’ 17” Moran asks Justa about the store Jimmy used to run. Justa tells Moran the store was operating on the store credit, hence the downfall of the business. They continue to talk about opening a store in Tachie that is operated by someone with a strong business mind.

13’ 37” Moran asks Justa about a family member from Burns Lake that his sisters previously mentioned. Justa tells her that the family member is an aunt.

14’ 34” Moran asks Justa about the residential school. She enquires about his ability to play hockey. Justa never wore skates until he attended residential school.

16’ 03” Moran asks Justa about fishing with a safety pin. He tells her that one Indian can eat anything.

16’ 53” They return to talking about residential school and if Justa had ever returned. He went back when he was forty-five to visit the area.

18’ 34” Moran asks about the house his family used to live in. Justa is not sure about his brother’s story regarding the Hudson’s Bay Company. He is sure that the house they lived in was built byt heir family.

21’ 01” Moran asks about Justa’s brother who passed away when he was quite young. Justa says his mother told him his brother fell off the roof and broke his neck. They talk about Justa’s brother, Teddy, being killed.

24’ 04” Moran asks Justa about the community making their own snowshoes. Justa tells her what they made the snowshoes out of – deer hide, cow hide, moose hide. Justa talks about going out on the trap line with his father in his homemade snowshoes.

26’ 21” Moran asks Justa about his previous employment from 1957 on. He gives a chronological account of his employment history until 1967, when he went to jail. After 1969, he continued to work. He always worked. They continue to talk about his past employment.

39’ 32” Moran asks Justa about his social life between 1957 and 1967. He tells her that he had a good time. He started to drink at seventeen.

40’ 53” Moran asks about Justa’s brother Teddy and their relationship. Justa tells her they were close, like twin brothers.

41’ 52” They talk about his alcoholism and how it led to fighting. Justa continues to talk about his drinking days and how much trouble it caused him. He also talks about how his parents tried to discourage drinking between him and his brothers. His parents were not worried about his sisters because they settled down early.

48’ 52” Justa talks about how often he saw his family, particularly his parents, during that time period. He says he always felt close to his family, no matter what happened.

50’ 27” Moran asks Justa about how he earned a dollar a week leading children to the residential school. They talk about his arm being broken in the last year he attended residential school. He talks about playing hockey throughout his time at residential school.

54’ 11’ Moran asks Justa about how the Kemano II Project is going. Justa said in an interview the process should stop entirely because people are resigning on the government’s side. Justa tells her they are going to publicly protest the project.

59’ 16” End of tape.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’10” Bridget Moran interviews Justa Monk. They discuss the ancestry of his last name and its original spelling, Monck. Moran wants to know more about Monk’s genealogy. She tells Justa his family history will be a chapter in the book.

08’ 45” Justa discusses how his ancestors move around on the land for hunting purposes. Moran wants to know more about gardens.

10’ 19” The interview returns to Justa’s family history, particularly the arranged marriage between his mother and father.

12’ 33” Moran asks about Justa’s immediate family. Justa talks about his brothers and sisters.

16’ 54” Justa talks about alcoholism with his brothers and sisters, and with other families.

20’ 10” Moran returns to asking about Justa’s brothers and sisters. Justa talks about one of his brothers being shot and killed; mentions the name of the man who killed his brother. Justa talks about his nephew getting shot by the RCMP.

27’ 54” Moran asks Justa about the relationship between him and his siblings. He talks about being the one who is reliable; has strong leadership skills, even though he is the youngest child.

30’ 50” Moran asks about Justa’s mother. She loved going to potlatches, did a lot of sewing. She was a very quiet and religious person. Justa’s father was the same, very outspoken. Justa tells Moran he is close to all of his brothers and sisters after she asks which he is closest. When Justa was 5 years old, he spent a lot of time with his father, where he learned to hunt by the age of 7.

34’ 20” Moran asks about Justa’s housing when he was growing up. He tells her his family had a large house, but there were no bedrooms, so they had different corners where they would sleep. They had a large garden outside of their home.

39’ 20” Justa talks about how isolated Portage was, so they had to grow their own food.

40’ 41” Moran asks about churches. Justa tells her there was a church and a priest came into Portage once in a while.

41’ 10” Moran asks about what Justa remembers about Christmas. He remembers getting dressed up and going to church to sing hymns.

43’ 02” Moran asks Justa which of his brothers and sisters went to school. Justa says his sisters were not punished or abused. His brothers enjoyed school. His brothers and sisters were not allowed to speak their language, and this was their only disappointment. Justa talks about his experiences at school; he quit school and tried to get a job.

50’ 24” Moran asks about when Justa moved from Portage to Tachie.

52’ 34” Moran asks about Justa trying to get a job at such a young age. He got a job with his brothers at a sawmill in Fort St. James.

55’ 33” Justa says he was born in 1943. Moran asks about when he met Theresa, his wife. They began their common-law relationship in 1966.

57’ 13” Moran asks about how long Justa was in jail. He served 9 months and was released on parole.

1:02’ 53” Justa talks about being unemployed and broke. Theresa came to visit him at camp where she stayed for 6 or 7 months. He talks about getting married later on in their relationship. Moran asks about where Theresa is from. Theresa is from Tachie but he did not know her growing up. Moran asks about Theresa’s background.

1:08’27” Justa talks about his many girlfriends, partying, and being a womanizer. Theresa and him got ‘serious’ after she had their daughter.

1:11’ 24” Moran ends the interview. She tells Justa they will change the pace for the next interview by discussing land claims. Moran asks Justa about running for chief. He lost the first time he ran.

1:14’28” Moran asks Justa about Kemano. Back in 1948, Kemano I was created. The Indian Agent came to the reserves for signatures so the Kemano project could go ahead. Justa says the people did not have time to move their things when the flooding began. People were misled with regards to what the Kemano project was about. People on the reserves were moved to Grassy Plains – they were spread out, not the same community as they were. In 1982, First Nations people began to fight back against Kemano II. Justa was a district chief.

1:24’ 48” Justa discusses the need for an environmental assessment for the Kemano project. The case to the Supreme Court and are currently waiting for the decision. The provincial government claims there is no need for environmental assessment and are planning to go forward with the project. Justa discusses the commission and the Kemano case, in general.

1:30’ 07” End of tape.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Continuation of Tape 2. Justa discusses the review of the Kemano project. He wants a public review where there is First Nations representation. He is frustrated by the lack of a working relationship and being recognized as a leader.

03’ 29” Their way of life is damaged from the flooding. Graveyards were flooded in the 1940s. Fishing grounds will never be the same. Kemano II will do the same damage to a narrower piece of land. Seven communities will be affected, particularly Stoney Creek, because there will be no more fishing grounds.

08’ 27” They are doing this for more electricity, not for the aluminum. BC Hydro made a deal with Alcan for a bigger reservoir. Moran asks Justa if BC Hydro is the ‘imp in the woodpile.’ Justa tells her there is a three-party agreement between Alcan, BC Hydro, and the provincial government. He tells her the project will not go ahead because he believes the Supreme Court will rule in their favour.

15’ 05” Moran mentions Mary John saying that everything the First Nations ‘ever got they had to fight for.’ They briefly discuss Oka. Justa returns to discussing the Kemano II project.

16’ 53” Moran asks Justa about the Aluminum Company of Canada.

17’ 49” They both talk about the Indian Agent that would not let First Nations people in his home. They both relay their disgust with a specific Indian Agent.

18’ 41” Moran asks Justa about the Carrier-Sekani land claims. He discusses having to revisit the boundary lines. Justa talks about an agreement he signed on September 21, 1992, where there would be proper representation for the First Nations people.

26’ 30” Justa discusses the ‘potlatch law’ which he describes as ‘love, share, and respect.’ He talks about how he often gets a good response from groups he teaches.

34’ 51” Moran tells Justa how she was contacted by the Stoney Creek Band regarding how they collected several stories that are unreadable. They have asked Moran to somehow transcribe them properly.

36’ 37” Moran asks Justa about the Kemano II decision from the Supreme Court. He talks about how he is disappointed in the decision, but said he expected it because the government has rarely ruled in favour of First Nations issues.

43’ 16” Justa tells Moran that he was written a letter to President Bill Clinton and Vice-President Al Gore extending an open invitation to see the damage the Kemano II project has done to the environment.

45’ 03” Moran asks Justa when he returned to Tachie to work. He discusses his work there. In 1969, he began work at BC Rail. He moved to Dawson Creek with Theresa and their family.

51’ 09” Moran asks Justa about returning to the village of Tachie, particularly with the trouble that had happened with his brother. He talks about how the elders believed that everything would work out and how many of his achievements relate to that philosophy.

54’ 37” Moran asks Justa about his maintenance work for BC Rail. He describes his position in detail.

59’ 44” Moran asks Justa about the great gardens his father had grown, but this has stopped because of the road. He talks about bringing in television to the community. He talks about when hydro came into the community in the early 1970s. He talks about the water and sewage system being implemented in the mid-1970s.

1:05’ 10” Justa talks about when he became band manager in 1973. He describes his position. Moran asks about the difference between band manager and chief. Justa describes the difference.

1:13’ 21” Moran asks about whether or not Justa had to deal with Indian Agents or the DIA during that time. He describes his band manager position further as being a marriage counsellor, policeman, secretary, a bouncer, and always trying to make peace within the community. He talks about the pressure of the position, and how it made his alcoholism worse, how he was on sleeping and nerve pills.

1:21’ 31” Moran asks about the population of Tachie. She asks about the location of Grand Rapids.

1:22’ 33” Justa talks about becoming chief in 1975, but also kept the band manager position. He discusses in detail about being both, particularly with social issues. He talks about how parties often ended up in some accident ie a little girl getting shot.

1:28’ 34” Moran asks about the isolation of the community. Justa discusses calling for a boat or a plane to evacuate someone in case of an emergency.

1:30’ 10” End of tape.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Justa talks about getting together a memorandum of understanding regarding boundaries for fishing grounds. Justa has also been discussing land claims with the provincial government. He talks about setting up the future for the younger generation. He says a fair land claim settlement would be the granting of traditional grounds.

5’ 27” Moran asks about the Save The River campaign.

6’ 14” Moran inquires about the diaries Justa is supposed to bring her. Justa wants to talk about his childhood. He feels his youth was better than the youth of today because they are given everything.

11’ 06” Moran asks about Justa’s life in Portage and to describe a day he remembers from his time there before going to residential school. He talks about not being allowed out after dark and being respectful of other people’s property. He discusses being disciplined by talking about what was right and wrong.

15’ 15” Justa talks about his time in residential school and how he was not allowed to speak his native language. He was shocked by the corporal punishment. Moran and Justa discuss about putting this in the book or not. He talks about not having any privacy in the residential school.

21’ 55” They return to discussing the personal details of Justa’s life in Portage, such as eating porridge for breakfast. Moran and Justa discuss fishing and hunting, and the times of the year he would be away from home.

27’ 55” Moran asks Justa about a day at the residential school. He talks about how he refused to buy a Bible. He participated in sports in his second year. He talks about the food and having to take cod liver oil. He talks about being a hockey player. He talks about the time he broke his leg at the residential school.

37’ 51” Moran asks Justa about which of his sisters would be willing to talk to her. They begin to talk about Justa’s philandering and how he had a lot of fun during that time. He talks about cheating on Theresa, but they stayed together. They continue to talk about his sex life. He talks about his relationship with Theresa. He talks about his daughter, Sharon.

47’ 00” Moran wants to talk about the trauma of John, his brother who was murdered. He tells Moran that was the time he started to turn his life around. They talk about his time in jail.

48’ 18” Moran starts the interview with Theresa, Justa’s wife. Moran asks Theresa about her personal details. She talks about her family past. She got married to get away from her parents, who were her adoptive parents.

52’ 40” Moran asks Theresa about going to residential school and how her parents would not allow it because they wanted to teach other responsibilities. Theresa talks about how some of her responsibilities were hunting beavers.

59’ 30” Theresa starts talking about how she found out she was adopted. She discusses her real brothers and sisters and how several of them passed away from tuberculosis. She talks about how she is close to her adoptive mother. Theresa does not know why she was adopted out.

1:05” 57” Moran asks Theresa about residential school. Theresa says she could not speak English, so was punished for speaking her native language. She says there was no corporal punishment against her. She talks about getting tuberculosis and getting transferred to a hospital where she stayed for eighteen months. She learned how to speak English while at the hospital.

1: 14’ 57” Theresa talks about getting married at the age of 18 in 1948. Theresa gets tuberculosis again in 1956, so was placed in a sanatorium. She returns to talking about her former husband and how he treated her poorly. He was sent to jail for about two years for assaulting Theresa.

1: 26’ 50” Theresa talks about how difficult it was to obtain money for her and the children.

1: 27’ 54” Moran asks about how she met Justa. She says she always liked him and thought he looked cute. She began to go out with Justa in the 1960s. She moved to Dawson Creek to be with Justa when he was released from jail.

1:33’ 35” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran asks Justa about living ‘three lives.’ Justa discusses the three phases of his life – childhood, getting in trouble, and being in a leadership role.

03’ 10” Moran asks Justa to discuss his older brother John. Justa talks about John and his personality and his relationships.

07’ 35” Justa discusses the trouble he got into with John. Justa does not remember what started the fight, because no one wanted to tell him what had happened. Justa does not remember killing his brother, but discusses how he wanted to commit suicide after finding out the truth. Justa also talks about his jail time.

24’ 14” Justa talks about his move to Dawson Creek to do upgrading. He still had the intention of Justa talks about adopting his niece.

26’ 03” They return to discussing Justa’s committing suicide. He felt guilty about taking his brother’s life. They also discuss his alcoholism.

35’ 25” Moran asks Justa about how he felt about being Indian or being treated as a second-class citizen. Justa says he is proud to be Indian.

38’ 35” Justa talks about being slapped as punishment for using his native language at school. He talks about kissing a girl and getting caught. He talks about his other punishments at residential school, and how he got tired of a specific teacher. He continues to discuss the school and assimilation into the ‘white world.’

53’ 35” Moran asks about the name he was named after, Justa Hansen, who was from Tachie. Justa talks about how Hansen was an important leader of the community.

55’ 52” Moran asks about ‘Indian’ food, such as deer, bear meat and salmon. He loves this type of food dried.

58’ 49” Moran asks Justa when he became tribal chief. He talks about the history of the position and how he became the tribal chief.

1: 03’ 30” Moran asks about Justa’s father’s potlatch. He talks about his parents’ death.

1: 07’ 17” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran asks Justa to identify reserves on a map. Moran tells Justa she wants to start the book with the history of reserves Justa lived in or around. Justa was born in Fort St. James. Moran asks what he wants to name the book.

05’ 10” Justa talks about how long it took to get from place to place when he was a child. He talks about what types of transportation was used in the different seasons. He also discusses how the way of life changed when the road was built between Fort St. James and the other reserves. Moran suggests the road was bittersweet because of the loss of community.

25’ 30” Justa is concerned about the loss of Indian culture to younger generations, so speaks his language often. He also worries about the dependency First Nations have on modern conveniences, so have forgotten how to live off the land.

33’ 56” Moran asks how Justa feels about ‘culture camps.’

38’ 25” Moran asks Justa which clans are in Tachie, where he names several.

40’ 05” Moran tells Justa she has been reading his diaries and how she feels he is being killed by meetings once he became band manager. Justa says the meetings are beneficial to teaching himself what he needs to know.

42’ 35” Justa talks about his nervous breakdown because of the amount of meetings he had to attend, which he averages at about one thousand a year.

43’ 36” Moran asks Justa what the central concerns were for Tachie. Justa tells her hydro, sewage, telephone and cable services, and schools. Justa talks about the schools, in particular.

49’ 46” Justa talks about the new band manager of Tachie.
50’ 09” Moran asks about the Kemano Project. Justa tells her there are lot of uncertainties, but he is not sure what they are at the moment. Justa thinks the government will go ahead with Kemano II regardless of what the public think.

57’ 27” Justa talks to Moran about the qualities of being a leader. His father told him he was too radical to be leader and had to respect other people’s opinions and nationalities to be successful. People are more supportive of his ideas now.

1: 00’ 50” End of tape.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary
SIDE 1
00:04 Moran asks Justa when and where he was born. In Fort St. James, Nov. 20, 1942 in his father’s home. Moran asks about Justa’s mother’s family and her relationship to Eddie John. His mother had a big family, 2-3 sisters, and quite a few brothers. She was from Portage and his dad was from Babine Lake. Both ended up in Tachie after meeting in Fort St. James and marrying in 1924. Their marriage was arranged: a long time ago that is how marriages were made. His parents were born in 1900 and married in 1924. His mother was married before and had one child but this first husband died. The child’s last name was Maurice. After getting married, his parents moved to Portage to work on his father’s farm acreage outside the reserve. When Justa went to Lejac in ’54, he was accused of being non-status by Dept. of Indian Affairs and tried to kick him and his brother out of Lejac because this farm was off reserve. In 1954 the Monks moved back to Tachie after all his older brothers and sisters got married in Tachie.

4:35 His parents lived away from Tachie for about 30 years. They moved back to Tachie after working in Fort St. James, Douglas Lodge and Nakalak Lodge on Stewart Lake. Bridget wondered who owned the lodge back then? Justa says it was owned by Harry McConnachie. Justa’s father worked at this lodge as a guide.

5:03 Justa was the baby of a family of 11. Justa was born in 1942, when his mother was 42. His mother was born Feb. 18, 1900, his Dad May 15, 1900: so they were both about same age. They were married 67 years. His Mom died March 17, 1992. She was still sewing slippers at age 92. Bridget Moran talks about taping Granny Seymour as part of her social work when she was 111-112 years old, and how Granny had sewn Bridget a tablecloth.

6:30 Justa stayed at Lejac for 4 years. He couldn’t read, or write or speak English when he first started school. When he first arrived he had to surrender his home clothes and asked his brother, in his own language, why they were taking his clothes. A priest, Father Clanahan hit him on the ear and told him not to use that language here. He never forgot that day. He stayed from ’52 to ’57 and left in September 1957. They didn’t want to let him go because he was one of the best hockey players at Lejac. He took off into bush and went to his auntie’s place. They chased him for 2 weeks steady. He left because he was sick and tired of 2 things: working all the time on the farm and not learning anything in school; and second, praying 10-20 times a day. The schoolchildren changed clothes on Sundays, into Sunday clothes: a sweater and a pair of pants to go to church. He has nothing against religion, he is a practicing Catholic, but he was made to pray too often at Lejac. One thing he found with Lejac, was that they taught him what was right and wrong – they disciplined the children. Lejac did discipline people, but they didn’t totally punish them (with physical force). He worked at Lejac after he quit school with Adrian Johnnie. They would work there for 3 weeks then return home for 5 weeks. This job didn’t provide high wages but it was work and he had money.

10:18 When Justa left Lejac, he worked at a mill. He was 14 and underage, so his brothers signed for him so he could work. When he left Lejac in 1957, his father told him to go back but he didn’t want to. Justa had RCMP officers after him but with his brothers’ help he kept hiding. When his dad knew Justa wasn’t going to return to school he told him that if he was man enough to quit school, he was man enough to be on your own and start work. So his parents moved back up to North Arm to the lodge, and left Justa in the Fort. He was underage, and couldn’t get a job, until his brothers Teddy and John signed a consent form for him to work in a mill. He worked in the mill for 7 years from ’57 to ‘63. From ‘63 on, he worked with his dad at Nakalak Lodge for another 7 years. He worked a lot around white society and then into the Indian nations.

11:45 Justa talks about his trouble with the law. In 1967 his brother John came over and asked him to come and drink with him. His dad told him twice not to go but Justa didn’t listen. They were drinking rum together and the last thing he remembered was playing record player on the table. Later that night, the cops came and picked him up. He asked them why they were picking him up. The cops asked him if he knew what had happened. He said he didn’t know what they were talking about. They then told him he had stabbed his brother. He didn’t believe them. They had to get one of his sisters to come and explain it to him. That was in ’67, he was about 20 years old. He took it rough. He did time for 6 months or so in Prince George. He wanted to commit suicide but had a 24-hr guard placed on him. The prison also had his lawyer and priest to come and talk to him. When he was released, he went home and his family accepted him back but he still felt awkward and had every intention of killing himself.

14:07 He went back to jail. He was told to stay away from the hotel. His friend went into this hotel, but Justa stayed outside about 50-60 feet away. A cop came by and told him he wasn’t supposed to be near that place. He asked him what was ‘near’ and the cop said about 50ft. Justa told the cop that he wasn’t going in, but the cop told him he was violating his parole anyway. He didn’t argue with the cop. He went back with his lawyer in front of the judge. Because he didn’t go into the hotel, he didn’t get charged with violating his parole, but was told he had to leave Fort St. James so he moved up to Dawson Creek and went back to school.

14:47 He stayed 1½ years in Dawson Creek to do his upgrading. He didn’t know anyone there. At that time he got $34/month for incidentals like cigarettes: room and board must have been paid for separately. Nowadays kids get something like $2,000 for going to school. It ($34) wasn’t much in ‘67-‘69. In ‘69 he got a letter from his brother Teddy saying their parents wanted him home. Justa had a common-law wife at that time. She had moved up to Dawson Creek with her kids. She had kids from another relationship. Life wasn’t easy then. He couldn’t get any part-time work. He had no choice but to move home after the letter from his brother. His parents were getting old. It wasn’t an easy life he lived.

16:10 From ‘67 on it was awkward. He didn’t know how he coped. Sometimes he just wanted to be alone. After he moved back home, he got a cabin on Stewart Lake - one his dad used to own. His dad transferred it over to him. He’d stay up there and just think about things. He had a lot of good jobs offered when he was young. When he was guiding, he had a guy from California offer him a guiding job in California. This guy said he would send Justa home twice a year to see his family. He was single then but he rejected this offer. In ‘70 when worked at BC Rail, they wanted him to move to Williams Lake and Kamloops to be a crane operator. He rejected them too because he wanted to be with his parents.

17:26 On Jan. 2, 1971 the band hired him as maintenance man. In ‘72 when the chief and staff there quit, they asked him to be band manager. He said he didn’t have the knowledge. They came back to his house twice, on the third time Justa agreed to give it a try but gave them no guarantees that he would stay. He said he didn’t know how he’d be an office boy when he was more an outdoors person, but he gave it a try and since then he has never looked back. From there Justa went from band manager for 14-15 years, to chief and band manager at times. When his brother (?) resigned as chief, he stepped in as chief and band manager. That was the toughest year he ever had. He was on nerve pills and sleeping pills. Dr. Mooney said if he didn’t slow down he was going to die. On June 14, 1986 when he broke out in rash again from bad nerves, he asked the council to let him off for 6 months or so for a rest - they wouldn’t let him, so he quit. He stayed home July and August and had no intention of working anywhere. He was going to go to his cabin and draw UIC. But on August 16, Eddie called him and told him he had to be in Prince George by August 18 as the Carrier Sekani Membership Assembly passed a motion and wanted to hire him as their General Manager. His wife said it was up to him, but she also suggested that he should take a year off. But he decided it was his own people picking him and he didn’t want to refuse them. So they moved down to P.G. and he was General Manager from August 1986 to July 1988 when the Tachie band wanted him back up there. When he moved back up to Tachie he was given the position of Coordinator for Teasely Forest Products, the sawmill they were building on the reserve. They also looked at him as Vice-chief, which he worked at part time on a volunteer basis from 1988-89. In 1989 he became Vice-chief and in July 1990 he was elected Tribal Chief which again meant he had to move down to P.G. for 2.5 to 3 years without his family. He was living out of motels for about a year.

21:44 He married his wife in 1972. She had 6 or 7 children from the previous marriage. She was a widow. They were going together before that. In ‘67 she had his child. Her name before marriage was Theresa Austin. They only had 1 child together but they adopted 1 girl and 1 boy. The girl was Theresa’s grandchild after Theresa’s daughter was killed. They legally adopted her when she was a few weeks old. Then Justa’s niece had a boy in Kamloops and wanted to give the boy away. He wanted a boy badly so he took the child.

23:12 Justa speaks of one of his daughters who was, at the time of the interview, being assessed for placement into College Heights Secondary in Prince George. She was supposed to go into grade 10 but as there was a lot of difference between reserve school in Tachie and public school in Prince George, she had to go for testing.

23:53 As Chief, Justa had a three part mandate: to educate the public about land claims, to work on land claims, and to stop Kemano II. Public education on land claims was a priority and he spoke to many organizations. However, his main focus at that time was Kemano II as it was going to destroy their way of life. The previous chief had done nothing about it for two years. Justa hired lawyers and started going to court. His lawyers lost the first round at court, won the second, and lost the third and that’s where it stood at the time of the interview. Other administrative priorities included: education, drop outs within the CSTC area, housing, social problems (drugs and alcohol). There was not just one issue, but many.

26:23 He never thought he would be in politics. He thought originally that he wanted to be either an RCMP officer, or to join the army. He never thought he’d be a chief. He went to a recruiting office, one of his friends was accepted. His knee was weak from previous sports injuries so he was rejected as was another one of his friends.

27:54 Justa has been working since he was 14. He was 49 at the time of the interview – that’s 35 years of his life spent steadily at work - except for 1 year when he went to school in Dawson Creek. Justa said the last 22 years were where the excitement was. From ‘71 to the present he’d seen lots of changes. In some cases better, in others worse. He gives for example the guidelines of the Department [of Indian Affairs?]. When reading the guidelines regarding housing and education the system has gotten worse – it has gotten stricter. Construction is also too costly now – you can’t build economical housing anymore. Communication with the department, however, has improved. Housing and social problems on reserve are now worse – more drugs, alcohol and free money. Justa stresses that social assistance is going to damage his people if they don’t do anything about it. His way of thinking proposes an alternative funding arrangement so the band can change the way social assistance is distributed so that his people can’t get money for free. The council would be able to make their people do something for the community in exchange for this money. Fort Nak'azdli band is doing that. The administrator there has brought welfare recipients down from 90% to 10%.

32:02 Bridget mentions it is her birthday today (69). She then tells Justa that they will have to talk about what he thinks (re: how to write the book). Justa says he wants to recollect everything. Bridget also mentions the wealth of information in the many journals he has kept over the years.

33:02 His time at Lejac was exciting for him. He was a favourite pupil at Lejac, because of his sports agility.

33:24 Bridget asked him if he had had trouble with alcohol. He says yes, that was the reason he got into trouble. He would work 5 days a week, but on weekends he would party with his brothers and a few friends. His parents worried he wouldn’t make it due to his partying. He started drinking at Lejac with stolen mass wine. Eventually he came to a point in his life when he was Band Manger where he wasn’t taking his leadership seriously. He would bring a thermos filled with beer and 3 packs of cigarettes to the office just to get through the day. After one of the elders talked to him about his self destructive ways, he began to think about his life. That was in 1984-85. So he started slowing down. As well, once his adopted little boy had grown up enough to see him drinking, he had told him to quit, so then he really started slowing down. And lastly, after he became Tribal Chief he knew he had to change his ways so he could be a positive role model for the young people. Quitting drinking was tough though as there were times he just wanted to drink, like when young people in his band died.

36:41 Bridget said she’ll write an outline of his life for her publishers to see what they think and then they can decide from that. She had his phone number and promised not to give it out to anyone else as it is unlisted. He mentioned he was going to go out hunting but his wife was always home. Bridget said she probably won’t tackle this project until the New Year as she had a new book coming out: A Little Rebellion. They could then work out an arrangement: 50% – 50% on royalties and he would have final say on what would go into the book. She told him he has to be prepared to really tell everything.

38:12 Tape ends mid sentence.

SIDE 2

45:50 Interview with Justa; Mary John and Theresa Monk are there too

46:11 Bridget asks about Joe Hansen, Justa Hansen’s brother. Joe was at Camp 24 – a mill camp where people from Ft. St. James would go to work in the summer and live in the shacks. Justa spent a weekend at this camp taking care of Joe Hansen when he was very old and dying of TB. His mouth used to dry out so badly, Justa would use bear grease on the outside and inside of his mouth, and that’s when Joe told him that in the future when he gets married he was going to have kids and be a leader. He told Justa he helps people; and never to laugh at the poor, or crippled or blind, and that if anyone else was laughing to just walk away and not to laugh with them because they will suffer later on. This is what the elders advised him. Many issues the elders talked to him about are now happening and are guiding him in his leadership. Jim (?) Joseph told him the same thing on his death bed. He told him in the future he was going to be a leader for a long time after he dies. Justa was named after Justa Hansen who was his godfather, and Justa Hansen used to tell Justa how to help people and what to do out in the bush. His elders spent a lot of time with him and shared their knowledge and wisdom with him. Some of the predictions – people dying out of alcohol is now what he’s seeing. Back in 1970, late 60’s, he was told in the future he would see young people from here to Ft. St. James dying out from alcohol. He is seeing this now. One of the biggest opportunities he had in life was to hang around with his elders: beginning in 1971 when he started working for the band.

51:00 His used to hang out with his elders (he lists many) and cut wood for them and give it to them free. The elders were just like parents to him and he was welcome everywhere with his elders.

52:13 Bridget asks if Justa will become chief here. Justa says he doesn’t know and that the young people around here have different ideas and don’t know what true leadership is. He presumes he will become chief but he can’t predict anything. Theresa: young people don’t look at what is good and what is bad. Bridget: do you think there is any real challenge to your leadership? Justa: there are some young people, but they don’t have leadership experience. He is positive he is going to get in. He’s received phone calls from chiefs asking him to be chief to his people part-time and then to also be tribal council chief part-time. He says staff is very important in any leadership, good staff listen to grassroots people. Same with leadership, they must listen to the grassroots people. With a good set of staff you don’t worry about anything.

54:48 He wants to complete the Kemano II deal. He made a commitment. On that basis he’s confused as to where he wants to be, he has a week to finalize his position. He knows if he runs as tribal chief he will get in. Archie Patrick supports his leadership and thinks he was the only one to keep people together. He also thought Justa really should have been given time off when he had asked for it. Justa talks about the deaths in his family that had caused him to quit the tribal council when he did in May (‘92?) Justa believes with the right set of staff he could do it.

56:37 Bridget: She has heard from so many native people and elders that until there is healing for the residential school experience, the other social problems won’t be solved. Justa doesn’t believe this to be true. The social problems exist regardless. As of 1992 the younger generation has no discipline, no clear direction, it is hard to talk to them without them swearing back at you. He cannot blame Lejac – there was some good and some bad. You look around today at the guys in leadership and they were all from Lejac. The social problems, you measure it from the time we left Lejac the social problems weren’t there. There was no real alcohol problems- just a few of us, no suicide, not as many deaths as today. People have put it in their minds that Lejac is where the social problems started from. He wouldn’t use Lejac as an excuse. It isn’t just Lejac though, some residential schools may have been worse. He was there for 4 years and only got punished once for something he didn’t do.

1:00:06 The beginnings of solutions for social problems: substance abuse, violence, suicide start with elders, the parents and the youth themselves. If he becomes chief, there is going to be an elders council and a youth council and they are going to work together with the chief and councillors. That is the start. Together they will search for solutions. Elders to share what they went through. He has many elders that can do this - if he can get them out of bingo! He has the 5-6 youths too. He would take 2 youths who are into substance abuse, 2 from the school and 1 from an urban area and tell them to make a 1 year commitment to talk about social problems and listen to the elders and bring them to meetings and make them sit there and listen. They would then go back and share what they learned with their friends and other students.

1:04:08 Bridget: Speaks to and about Mary John’s work with her people in Stoney Creek to deal with alcoholism in her community. Mary dealt with it from family to family but got burnt out. Justa: that’s why you have to work with the councillors, you can’t just depend on the elders as it will burn them out. Mary: you have to work with the councillors. Mary and Justa talk about trouble in Stoney Creek with the Council, and how you have to listen to your elders. Eddie has also never used the elders. Change must come from elders - sharing of the past and the intention of the future. Chief and councillors must be right there too as they are the chosen leaders. Eddie John is current chief. Mary: Eddie just has title of chief but is never here. (not heard: ? is acting as chief) Justa: he’s not feeling well he just had cancer and is very tired still from the treatment.

1:07:56 The local school on reserve teaches Carrier culture – they teach language and potlatch. Justa was not sure if they were still doing it. When he was band manager they started it and they would ask him to come watch the little kids hold a little potlatch. He really enjoyed that. They’ve done a lot in regards to whole culture. He used to get money for elders to teach children how to do skins.

1:08:57 Justa receives a phone call and speaks Carrier. Bridget speaks to Theresa and Mary in background.

1:09:54 From 1967-69 Justa went back to school in Dawson Creek to upgrade but hasn’t been back since. He is more a self taught politician. He has learnt from reading. That’s why there is so much difference in leadership nowadays. You take a young person coming out of school or college and they think they come home to be chief and change the world overnight. He worked at the grassroots level first, he was maintenance man first, then band manager, then chief and then tribal chief. He started at the grassroots level and that is why his intention is to improve grassroots support. He doesn’t impose on his people, they have to tell him what they want. He may only advise on how things might work better in the future.

1:11:40 Because of his broad experiences, he is going to hold a workshop for new councillors on leadership and responsibility, how to listen and respond to things. He’s going to do this when he is chief or tribal chief again.

1:012:21 There are 15,000 people in Carrier Sekani, 22 occupied communities, and 14 bands.

1:13:08 He likes to work, he’s used to it. Ever since he was 14. He remembers when he ran away from the bus in September that was to take him back to school from Fort St. James. His dad told him if he was man enough to quit school he was man enough to work. That’s when he made up his mind to work.

1:14:09 Before Lejac he lived in Portage. He really enjoyed this life. They didn’t have anything fancy, even sweets were rare. Since 5, he remembers hanging around his dad who had a farm and would help him from 4 o’clock in the morning. He loved driving the horses to plow the garden. His dad taught him a lot about surviving in the bush and what not to touch and what to touch. His dad told him not to chop trees, if you need it, if it’s dry use it. His elders told him don’t touch anything you don’t need.

1:15:47 He was the youngest in the family. The next sibling to him was his brother Teddy who was about 2 years older. He got shot. He went on an island from Tachie to pick up his cheque from a guy who had a guiding outfit. This was just after Justa returned home from Dawson Creek after receiving a letter from Teddy asking him to come home to be with his aging parents. Teddy went out and didn’t come back, he was in his 20s.

1:17:42 Justa didn’t get to Lejac until he was 10 years old as his Dad didn’t want to send him. There was a guy - Lee Cochran, DIA – he and an RCMP member talked to his dad and told him Justa had to go. Most of his siblings went to school at Lejac for 1-2 years. Jimmy the eldest didn’t go to school at all. Bridget: By 7 most children were sent to school or had the church and cops after them. Mary: Maybe because Justa was a bit more isolated in his community he was left alone awhile longer. Justa was up in Portage and you could only get up by boat and if the water was rough you couldn’t get up at all.

1:19:08 Justa had a very good childhood. His mom and dad were both very gentle people. He was never hungry. He didn’t have fancy clothes like he’s got nowadays but he never went naked. He also had very good experience at Lejac compared to other people. He was the leader of the boys. He would lead them to class, or to the dinning room. That’s when his leadership started. The school principal and priest chose him to do that job and he got paid $1/week. Mary: also had a good experience at Lejac, although she was homesick and hungry. Justa was homesick during the first year as he didn’t know the language. He had to depend on his brother Teddy and other friends. After that he was fine. It didn’t bother him to go back. But in his fifth year, when he was going into grade 7, he was 14 and his brothers convinced him he didn’t have to go back so he didn’t.

1:21:40 He wonders If he did complete his school if he’d be another Indian lawyer running around. Justa always wanted to be in RCMP or join the army. In 1962 he went to Vancouver to enlist but wasn’t accepted because of a bad knee.

1:22:09 When he was working in P.G. Justa missed Tachie very much. So he would often get up early and work late – because if he was busy he was occupied and not so homesick for his family. He never appreciated living in a city much. For last 5 years, there had been talk about moving the CSTC tribal office to Stoney Creek or Vanderhoof but every time this was brought up there were some reasons why couldn’t move office: airport in PG and resource people in PG. Justa doesn’t agree and believes Vanderhoof to be the centre point for their people. City life doesn’t suit him. Bridget comments on how the house he shares with Archie in PG is very different than his home in Tachie.

1:24:48 Bridget: They will have to keep in touch. She asks him if he still wants a book written about him? She tells him to talk to Mary as a book changes your life a bit.

1:25:05 Mary: She says it does, but she likes to have more people getting these stories.
[Break in conversation due to stopping of tape recorder? Conversation resumes mid-sentence. Perhaps they are speaking of the watchmen?]

1:25:16 Justa: His auntie’s husband would check every house once and awhile. Sylvester Basil was an orphan who used to stay with Justa’s parents, but he always wanted to be mischievous and make home brew. His sisters didn’t like home brew and he didn’t like it, and they didn’t want to see their parents drink either... So these guys would chop up their tents. They never did answer them but used to be really scared of them. The church chief used to work together. Mary: Lazare is a Church chief now. Church chief’s look after the spiritual part of the people. Theresa: like a church leader. Justa – they talk in church about what is wrong and right and how to trust in the Lord.

1:27:02 Justa doesn’t drink at all now. He had too much in younger days. He had a couple of beers on the Easter Monday after his mom died. Before that it was 3 years ago. Prior to that he had been slowing down 5-6 years earlier maybe more. When he was chief and band manager and used to drink in the early 80s it got to him so badly he would bring a thermos of beer to the office. That was the only way he could keep us his energy. He came to realize it was harming him.

1:28:50 He used to receive many complaints as band manager. He kept daily diaries, where he would write down these complaints but identify the complainant. Bridget wanted him to dig them out. By winter Justa should know if he’s chief, tribal chief or nothing. He wants to share his abilities with all his people, not just this community. If he gets back in, he’s going to start a youth conference using the elders. Bridget: In society’s that have recovered it was the use of the elders that had done it.
1:30:40 Wendy Grant (Musqueum Band – Vice chief of BC) told him sad story up at Nakalak Lodge last summer, when they were talking about the future of how they were going to take over the DIA and self government. The story was about how her band and her community totally lost their culture…

1:31:11 End of tape mid sentence.

Audio recording is the continuation of an interview by Bridget Moran with Ken Rutherford, educator and former municipal politician of Swift Current, Saskatchewan and later ran for the NDP in Fort George, BC. Rutherford discusses his involvement in politics in Saskatchewan, and subsequent move to Prince George, BC and interest in politics in BC.

Audiocassette Summary

• Recalls the 1953 federal election when he ran unsuccessfully as CCF member for Swift Current, Saskatchewan
• After election decided to move to Vancouver; started looking for jobs and took teaching job in Prince George, BC
• Describes living conditions; living in cabin in Fort George and their early neighbors (Milners (sp?) in Prince George c.1950s
• Recalls running in BC elections 3 times unsuccessful
• Discusses MLA Ray Williston and the Wenner-Gren election issue
• Discusses his thoughts on the current NDP; regarding the issue of Senate abolishment and what he sees as ‘undemocratic policies’

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Context: Tape recording is an interview between Bridget and Mary John in which Bridget initially asks Mary John about events after the inquest into Coreen Thomas’s death. Bridget notes also that she wants to provide an update on Mary John’s life 10 years after the inquest.

Side 1
00’05” Bridget asks Mary John about her role in the Coreen Thomas inquest. Mary thinks that she discovered Coreen’s death due to the ringing of the church bells [to announce a death]. She tries to recall the series of events leading up to her time being involved in getting an inquest. Recalls Sophie Thomas’ desire to have an inquest into her death

6’00” -10’00” She recalls that the [Indian] Homemakers Association became involved in attempting to get an inquest. She says ‘she was just tagging along with it …I was not a fighter” Bridget notes that Harry Rankin stayed at Helen’s house when he represented the Homemakers Association at the inquest. Bridget recalls the ‘marvellous’ dinner that was put on for them at the time of the inquest by Mary John and Helen. Mary John notes it was at the invitation of the Homemakers Association for the group to come to her house.

10’:00”-14’00” Bridget and Mary talk about follow-up to the inquest and Coreen’s family.

14’50”- 25’00” Mary talks about her involvement as well as others in the creation of the Elders Society after the death of Mary’s son due to drowning in 1978. The Society had workshops in an effort to revive their culture with the hope of having the younger generations take pride in their culture. One of the activities was the building of the Potlatch House in 1980 where they did traditional activities including tanning of hides.Talks about acquiring the land to build the potlatch house and having the Chief take care of getting the land from BCR; the Society cleared the land twice over to set up the house. Mary explains that the Society acquired funding of $93,000.00 from ARDA [?] to clear the land from the logs and build the house.

26’00”-30’00” Mary talks about a new project that the Society has to build 10 rental tourist cabins as a business for the youth to operate. Bridget suggests it could be similar to that at K’san. Mary also explains that there is a cook-house at the Potlatch House as well and that it has been used for community events, weddings, dinners, organizational events also.

Tape stops momentarily and starts again

30’05”- 36’00” Mary talks about the drowning of her son and finding of his body in 1978 as well as other tragedies that happened in the community which led to the creation of the Elders Society to assist the youth

36’30” -39’30” Mary talks about the joys of finally having her own house and the building of the house

39’32” -42’40” Mary talks about the organizations that she is involved in now. She talks about a film made in the community about social workers coming in the community to work with Elders to care for issues related to youth. She notes that ‘that’s when the ice broke’ and it made a difference.

43’00” She talks about a dinner that she holds every year for the police officers to thank them for the service they do for society

43’30” Talks about fishing at Fraser Lake

44’00” -46’00” Mary talks about her work now at her house to teach the youth about their culture: making of baskets, moccasins, tanning of hides

End of side 1

Side 2
46’30”-48’00” Mary continues to talk about the activities that she does with native youth to educate them about their culture

48’50” Bridget asks about whether the youth are involved in tree-planting and asks another woman in the room (Bernice?)

50’00” – 56’00” Bridget asks what her three wishes are for her people: better lives; more education for the young people to have better jobs; they need to get out to the white world and not be so isolated; she refers to when she worked in ‘the white world’ She talks about the isolation of the reserve and yet the protection that it offers to the people as well. Bridget and Mary talk about the reserve offering a way to protect the native culture. Bridget asks why it is important to protect their culture. Mary notes their culture is so important; she notes that other cultures like Japan and China haven’t lost their culture so why should the natives.

56’05” Mary notes that none of the grandchildren speak Carrier and the need to protect their culture and language when being surrounded by a white community. Refers to her grandson Fabian who is in the room

57’00” Bridget recalls a Fort St. James woman who tried to keep native kids out of white schools. She wanted them to be kept on the reserve so that they didn’t lose their culture. She talks about the fight by many to get their native status back – those whose one parent is not native

58’00” Mary talks about her worries for the young native people in the community who fear they have no future and who have no employment or education.

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content: Tape consists of a recording of Bridget interviewing Mary John primarily about her visit to the former native village site of Cheslatta

Side 1
Interview in process

00’05” Bridget interviews Mary John, Mary is referring to Madeline her niece.

1’00” Bridget asks Mary what made her decide to go to Cheslatta – to see the site where she had lived. Bridget asks if it was a ‘rediscovery’ trip. Bridget asks if this is where the village was burned out and flooded out [by Kemano development] Mary talks about her son Ernie wanting to go there and create a territorial hunting ground. She talks about going there with her niece Madeline and Alex

8’40” Mary explains how they got to Cheslatta; the travel there was by van through Francois Lake and via logging roads; it took about hour and half drive

11’00” Mary explains it was not the village that had been flooded that they went to; not the original village; she notes there was a campsite set up for them but it was cold at night. There were people there from Stellaco, about 75 total. She describes making bannock on a stick over the fire ‘the real bannock’ for the youth – like an “Indian pizza” (she laughs)

16’00” Mary continues to talk about the activities that she did at Cheslatta; show the youth how to fish, spear fish, clean fish, cut in strips and smoke the fish. There was no smokehouse but they created a lean- to and smoked the fish. Mary also notes another day Mary and Madeline took the youth to the bush and talked to them about uses of trees –

22’00”-20’25” Mary describes the steps involved with showing the youth at the Cheslatta camp how to collect spruce in order to build a smoke house for smoking the fish

29’30” Mary discusses food that she prepared for the gathering for the people

31’00” Mary talks about the group visiting the old village Cheslatta after the gathering

Mary then leaves to attend to a crying baby [a great-grand-child?]; they greet the mother

33’00” Bridget refers to a group of kids she talked to at Kamloops about their book Stoney Creek Woman. Bridget tells Mary she has letters written to Mary John by several students who had read Bridget’s book that she wants to show her

36’00” They continue to talk about the former Cheslatta village and what the former village residents want to do about the village; Mary notes there are archaeologists working there. Mary states the people have not yet received compensation for being taken off their land. Bridget notes those people loss their sense of community

38’31” Mary remarks the people at Cheslatta “have a good chief” “very humble person”

39’40” Bridget asks Mary about the Lejac pilgrimage. Mary then talks about the pilgrimage that is held at Lejac and that she had just been there ‘on Sunday night’; she notes it is arranged by Celina; she notes there were Tache people there. Bridget asks if there are children buried at Lejac and Mary notes there are children and students buried there – about 15 to 20 buried there.

43’00” They briefly discuss if this was a rediscovery for the Cheslatta people at the event. Mary agrees; she notes she stayed there for 10 days; Bridget remarks it was similar to Mary’s former camp of what she had experienced at Wedgewood. They talk about Mary’s son Ernie and that he has in Bridget’s view ‘leadership qualities”

45’30” Bridget asks about getting a bannock recipe for a Senior’s cookbook. Mary begins to tell the recipe

Side 2
47’40” Mary continues to show Bridget how to make bannock

50’00” Mary briefly refers to the event at Cheslatta again

End of tape

File consists of recorded audio interviews:

• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 1 & 2, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 3 & 4, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 5 & 6, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 7 & 8, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John 9 & 10 [#908 March 1985 CBC?], March 1985 [?] or c.1986-1987 [?]
• Interview: Mary John, August 1987
• Interview: Mary John - Cheslatta, 6 July 1993
• Interview: Mary John Potlatch, Terrace, B.C., 9 September 1991

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

00’05” Bridget is interviewing Mary John who discusses a potlatch held at Stoney Creek that Bridget attended. Bridget asks about the talking stick and she asks Mary John to explain its significance. Mary explains there had been a naming ceremony about a year ago and that a woman named Maisie had changed clans from her mother to her father’s clan. Mary notes while this is unusual, her father’s only son had died and therefore requested that the daughter changed clans. At this ‘September potlatch’ therefore this woman had to change tables at the potlatch.

04’00” Mary explains the context of the September Potlatch. She notes that Maisie had hosted this potlatch to pay back for the gifts that had been provided for her from a year ago when she received a new name. They then discuss the amount of money that the host gave to the guests and the amount of money that is normally provided – there is no particular amount ‘whatever you wish’ Mary notes she had provided Maisie with a gift last year of $100 but that Maisie gave her back $200 – that is not required – there is no required amount

07’30” Mary explains that at a potlatch you are expected to bring a case or few bags of food

08’00” Mary discusses the type of food provided at a potlatch; it is traditional food not western food; Bridget notes there was caribou provided there. Mary explains that the host of a potlatch asks people to hunt for moose and deer meat in order to prepare for the food to be served. Bridget then talks about the food that was served and Mary notes it included also fish and beaver.

11’00” Bridget asks Mary to talk about the gifts given to her daughter Flo at the potlatch in exchange for a loan she provided to another woman whose husband had died a year before. Bridget notes it was a ‘touching’ moment.

12’00” Mary talks about the Priest ‘Father Brian’ who was at the potlatch. Four clans collected money and gave it to the priest for his work [missionary work?]

15’07” Mary explains the situation of Geraldine Thomas –that at the potlatch she was not seated before; that is she was not initiated before and so she was seated at the potlatch

15’57” Tape stops momentarily

16’09” Mary continues to talk about Geraldine and the potlatch events; the significance of the tapping of the talking stick; then she was seated and guests give her gifts. Then Mary talks about Ernie and her late daughter Helen who also wanted to cross their clan but that Mary ‘did not let her go’

20’00” Mary talks about the feelings of a child who gives up their clan and that it is like ‘giving up one of your children’ as Celina noted to Bridget at the event.

21’00” Mary talks about her son Ernie who crossed over to his father’s clan and that he was gifted at the potlatch

22’00” Bridget then notes that at this potlatch that the Frog Clan became host of the Grouse clan at this potlatch. Mary explains that the clan then had debts to pay at this potlatch.

26’00” Mary talks about the death of Stoney Creek members; she is unsure when there will be another potlatch in Stoney Creek.

28’00” Bridget notes that she did not understand the ceremony as it was in Carrier language; however Bridget notes it is a pity the white world doesn’t see potlatches as they are ‘so touching’

31’00” Mary explains that each clan takes care of the deceased family members and takes care of putting up the headstone

32’00” Tape ends abruptly

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content: Recording starts referring to this as a continuation of previous discussion. Mary John talks about fishing and refers to tools in Carrier language.

0’01” She talks about having her children and the use of midwives – and laying of hands by the mid- wives as a healing ritual. There were no doctors in area where Mary had all her children. Recalls in 1946 going to Vanderhoof to see a doctor for one of the more difficult births. Talks about use of mid-wives at Pinchi Lake mines when they [her husband and her worked at] cutting wood for the mines there

8’00” Mary John recalls coming to Fort George – living in tent camp near the tracks. Her Husband worked for a man named Koop

9’00” Mary talks about her children going to Lejac, the Indian residential school “they were lonely and we were lonely….there was silence….everyone [kids] were gone” She recalls that the dids didn’t come home for Christmas – left in September and came back in June. Talks about transport of the kids “big truck” came to get them in the fall to bring them to Lejac.

Mary discusses her own school life at Lejac in 1922 at age 7 – recalls her initial thoughts about going to school; being delivered to the school; remembers talking to her parents once on the telephone from Lejac and being very homesick. Describes where the “Mission School” was located; recalls there were about 40 kids there. Talks about the teachers who were nuns and recalls various students at Lejac; notes she was there until 1927. She left school and a Mountie was sent after her to bring her to Lejac but her mother needed her to stay to look after the other children

20’00” Recalls an “Indian doctor” who came to town from “down south” who was not trusted by the local people who was ‘taking sickness’ out of people and ‘charging for it’ – caused a scandal – “singing hymns” heard he was from the Kootenays. [religious zealot?] they were afraid the Missionaries would punish the children for going to him.

21’00” Mary talks about being punished at Lejac – recalls running outside doors before whistle blew, and the sisters would whip them with a dry willow; says she wasn’t strapped but recalls seeing many strapped

22’00” Mary notes that spoke Carrier as first language and then in Fort St. James took a year to learn a little bit of English. She wasn’t aloud to speak her language at Lejac – she now feels ‘quite bitter’ about that and especially now most parents don’t speak Carrier or teach it to their children at home now

27’00” Mary notes there was no option to send her own kids to public school in Vanderhoof as they had to go to residential school

29’00” Mary John recalls one nice Scottish woman who she worked for in Vanderhoof c.1927

32’00” Mary John talks about where her kids went to school. She continues to talks about where native kids now go to school including at the Price George College

33’00” Mary John discusses her educational experiences at Lejac –

34’00” She recalls that the quality of the food at Lejac– it wasn’t good; too much porridge; not much meat; her job was to clean the dishes of the nun’s dinner tables so she would eat the remainder off their plates. Remembers occasionally getting fish smoked from a community resident and enjoying this

36’00” Discusses the church services at Lejac; singing lessons

38’00” Discusses outings from the school on the weekends including Robinson Point

41’00” Talks about picking roots as her job; recalls that the boys and girls were separated at the school; noted you would be spanked if you talked to a boy at the school; sexual interest shown between the girls and boys

44’00” Bridget asks about the girls experiences with menstruation – Bridget recalls a conversation ‘years ago’ when Bridget brought out a girl from India and that girls in India had to be separated when menstruating; Mary John notes that native girls also had to be isolated; it was considered an unclean time. It was the native belief that if a girl/woman had handled the meat/food for preparation during menstruating, it was considered bad luck for the hunters so the girls/woman were isolated from the community during that time of month.

51’00” Mary John herself did not believe in this custom. So there was a sense of relief when menopause came

End of that session Then tape starts again
51’05” Bridget notes it must have been difficult to talk to boys after boy-girl separation at Lejac; notes she was too shy to talk to boys

54’00” Bridget asks her to talk about her (Mary John’s) ancestors
Her Mother was Angele Quaw; her grandmother was known as ‘Six Mile Mary’

58’00” Bridget refers to a tape that she did many years ago with Granny Seymour and that Mary John may be able to make out some of the recording; Mary John notes that her mother was born in 1900; had Mary when she was only 13 with older man

61’00” Mary John talks about her biological father; had difficult relationship with him; he didn’t want a relationship as father-daughter

64’00” Mary talks about her mother’s marriage to Johnnie Paul at age 17; and they moved to Stoney Creek; they had 6 children; her mother died in 1934 in child birth.

68’00” Mary’s mother’s husband had died a month before she did; Johnnie Paul and James Antoine died at the same time from drinking bad home brew

71’00” Talks about taking care of her siblings after her mother’s death from childbirth

72’00” Talks about Johnnie Paul being a trapper and having a trap line at Stoney Creek

74’00” They discuss Mary John’s mother and grandmother genealogy; Quaw family of Fort George

78’00” Bridget asks her what her early memories would have been of Stoney Creek; Mary recalls tending to her mother during the flu epidemic. Recalls people being buried in blankets; too many people and no time to build coffins. Recalls Father Cocola and Lejac again.

84’00” Mary recalls going to their family hunting grounds at Cluculz Lake in September to hunt; use tents to stay in while hunting; stayed there about a month to hunt/snare animals. Recalls having a shack at Wedgewood in the winter where her step-father worked for the logging contractor.

89’00” begins to talk about memories of Wedgewood

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Scope and Content: Continuation of Accession #2008.3.1.211.1 - Tape #1 & 2

00’02” Mary John continues to discuss their winter camp at Wedgewood; recalls being by herself in the shack; describes the camp; stove; and baking bannock

4’00” Mary describes winter at Wedgewood ; then would return to Stoney Creek

5’00” Mary describes Christmas; they never had turkey, a Christmas tree or presents because they had little money. Yet everyone came together and went to church

11’00”-16’00” Mary shows Bridget how to tan hides and use of oils for tanning and talks about teaching her children how to tan hides and talks about her children

16’00”-20’00” recalls more of how long they would stay at Wedgewood; talks about the village c.1930s; and the Indian Agent

20’00”-22’00” Bridget asks Mary about cases of tuberculosis; how many cases there were in the early days; she recalls working for one white woman and she bought a coat with a fur collar that costs $13.00; also working for Mrs. Silver c.1927

23’00” Bridget asks her about their camp in Vanderhoof; Mary recalls they camped in tents when they went to Prince George; many times went by horse.

24’00”-26’00” Marcy recalls traveling to Shelley for a potlatch and to put up a tombstone for a relative; and then traveling to Fort George. Mary describes traveling to Shelley to the Indian Reserve at one time for a week; memories of people and relatives there and at Fort George

27’00”-28’00” Bridget asks her about the purpose of a potlatch; She describes that it is somewhat of a “gathering” same as for white people, Bridget notes a potluck supper. Mary describes food at a potlatch; memories of people and relatives at Shelley

30’00”-36’00” Mary states she married Lazare John on June 11, 1929 when she was 16 years old; Mary describes the wedding; and the watchman arranging the wedding. She explains that the watchman was like a councilor who looks after the wedding; a heredity chief appoints them (Bridget mentions her tape recorder had been stolen so is asking again about when they were married). Says she did not know her husband before her wedding. Mary talks about her husband’s family; and also her thoughts about getting married so young and with no knowledge of men.

36’00”-37’00” Briefly talks about her thoughts on sex

38’00”-41’00” Talks about early married life with in-laws close-by; no privacy

42’00”-44’00” Talks about racial problems she experienced; her father was a white man

44’00”-46’00” Living conditions for Mary John; poor relationship with mother-in-law; Mary wanted to have her own house

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

Scope and Content: Tape recording is an interview between Bridget Moran and Mary John – a continuation of interviews.

Side 1
0’02” Bridget asks Mary when she quit smoking - in 1972

1’00” Mary notes there was no talk of sex life; not part of First Nations culture

2’00” Mary talks about when she started working at the hospital; she was able to save money and her husband drove her back and forth; lived in a tent to save money; they pumped water to drink from a well 1 mile away so that they did not get sick; she notes she began working at hospital after her husband lost his seasonal job

5’00” Mary notes they had to have a tribunal hearing to get old age pension for her husband because his birth was not registered

7’00” Mary recalls that the Depression did not hit reserves as hard as white people because ‘they had always been poor’; yet at that time they were never without food. She talks about tough times during the Depression – could not find work only relief; got used clothing from white people

10’00” Mary refers to a Mrs. Campbell, a white woman who was a widow and had small children who was also poor in the Depression and showed her how to repair socks

12’00” She notes that they did not have much of a relationship with the Indian Agent – they knew he existed but they did not see him much; viewed him as a representative for the Indians; some [of the Indian Agents] were good and some were bad; she describes difficulties with the Indian Agent and getting little food: only a single ration (24 bag of flour; 5 lb bag of rice, bag of salt; ½ lb tea and 2 lbs lard) to last a family for a month and also flannelette material to make bed clothes. Indian Agent Office was in Vanderhoof

17’00” Mary recalls that the watchmen quit in the 40s – that is when marriages stopped being arranged; there were no Band Managers then; that only ‘started recently’

19’00” Mary talks about the priest who lived on the reserve in the 1940s; she does not know whether the [Catholic] Church was good for her people. Does not think that the Catholic Church was good for Indian Culture – they were the ones that ‘took it away’ […] tried to beat it out of the children

24’00” She notes that since that time she has been asked to teach dancing and classes in Indian culture; notes that some children can speak “Indian” in Mary’s family; notes her children can speak their own language

27’00” Mary talks about when the residential school Lejac closed; that it was taken over by the Department of DIA

29’00” Mary sees ‘Alcohol as the worst problem among First Nation’ – she recalls that a group of them began to get together to ‘pray and work with people who needed the most help’; she notes that while native people were not allowed to buy alcohol before and now have the right to get it - it has since become a problem; she describes the effect of alcohol on the community. She notes that although she and her husband did drink at one time she doesn’t anymore and recognized it as a problem back in the 1950s. She describes her feelings after a nephew was killed in an alcohol-related accident and how this convinced her to quit drinking; it was a choice she made on her own

40’00” Talks about early years when they were married and how difficult life was at that time; she recalls going to see the children at Lejac and camping out to visit them; she describes how to make a camp with spruce boughs and bringing food to camp

45’00” Describes the furniture and stove they had in their house when Ernie (son) was born A lot of time spent with one another for recreation

(Continuation on side B – labeled as #6)

Side 2
48’00” Mary John talks about the church priest – would not come out every Sunday for Mass – only started recently having mass frequently; talks about the hospital where nuns worked;

56’00” Bridget asks her about recreation on the reserve; Mary talks about clothing used on sports team – played Stellako and other reserves; “Baseball was popular” – hardball; she recalls going to Prince George to watch ball tournaments

60’00” Discusses recreation in early years; would have dances at people’s houses

62’00” Mary discusses white-native relations; ‘we never talked about it’ there were white people who were ‘good people’ that she did work for; cases of racial tensions in Vanderhoof

67’00” Bridget asks her if any white people ever came to visit her home; Mary notes that none came out to the reserve – the only one that use to come out was the priest and remembers the priest eating breakfast at her home. But “Prince George wasn’t like that” She tells of racist comments even now that she experienced with a new doctor in town

End of session – tape ends temporarily Start up of session again

74’00” Mary John talks about their efforts to educate and pass on their culture to younger generations; they now teach survival in the bush. She explains that this is to get native youths to experience being in the bush and teach them how to prepare food at camp; how to prepare fish and smoke fish. She talks about the location of the survival camp, close to Wedgewood; “sometimes would have close to 12 students”

End of session – tape ends temporarily Start up of session again
83’00” Mary talks about Aunt Mary Sutherland. Bridget asks about Mary’s husband [Lazare] his family history.

88’00” Bridget asks Mary about the history of Stoney Creek Reserve; Mary then proceeds to note the names of the families who lived at the reserve. She notes that she was originally born at Fort George. They talk about an Indian Agent in the 1950s and the building of houses on the reserve

92’00” Talks about family logging business

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

Side 1
0’02” Improvements within the Department of Indian Affairs; she notes that Indian Affairs was tricking the band. The Indian Agent took a logging contract away from Mary John’s son Ernie because he refused to pay the rate that they wanted in stumpage fees

4’00” Mary John recalls when the community started to speak up against Department of Indian Affairs about 1942. She recalls the Elders Society and the Indian Homemakers Association. She explains that the Elders Society supports the preservation of the Indian culture and arts/crafts; which involves set up of activities including summer camps; showing youths how to use fishing and hunting tools and recreation tools. Bridget asks about Elders involved in the Society.

13’00” Mary talks about teaching Indian language at the school for the youths and also teaching previously in the village for the children yet none of the children continue to speak their language today. But now with parents speaking at home it’s difficult to have them continue to speak their language

16’00” Bridget asks Mary to recall the time when she was named Citizen of the Year in Vanderhoof in 1978. Mary shows Bridget the award and recalls that they ‘had a big dinner’ for her. Mary notes it was a surprise, Mrs. Campbell brought her there – Mary John recalls that she didn’t have a speech planned

19’00” Bridget asks her to explain about the tanning of hides. Mary explains the process from the time of the shooting of the moose; fleshing and scraping of the hide. She explains how to use the knife on the hide so you can see the tissues of the skin. Then Mary turns over the hide to the hair side and shaves off the hair on the hide and then shows Bridget how it is scraped. They discuss the blade and how it is sharp. She explains it is then washed many times to clean the blood off and then it is stretched. She explains it is then spread with oil/ possibly fish oil – the whole hide is oiled up and then left about a week to dry. Then once dry you use another scraper to ensure it is soft. She notes it is a lot of hard work and time to complete. They then talk about smoking of the hides and Mary shows Bridget hides that she had made herself. Mary explains that the Elders have a class for the youths to show them how to tan hides.

29’00” Bridget asks Mary about the last potlatch held. Mary explains what a potlatch is and when it is viewed as a pay-out. A potlatch is thrown to pay back another clan for a service or a kindness that was done to them. She talks about potlatches for deceased persons; and how clans host potlatches. She talks about the foods prepared at a potlatch. Mary recalls “it can cost thousands of dollars” and notes plans in progress for the next potlatch to be held in August in Stoney Creek.

36’00” Recalls when potlatches were made illegal – recalls gifts she received years before at potlatches and ‘that someone benefits from it’ Years ago hides and dried goods were given out. Potlatches started up again in about 1934 and they held a potlatch for her mother when she died.

40’00” Mary explains there are two clans at Stoney Creek – the Frog and the Grouse; she explains that you don’t marry within your own clan.

45’00” Recalls the death of some of her relatives

End of Side 1

Side 2
45’02” Mary talks about her siblings who are still alive

48’00” Talks about the preparation and setting of nets in canoes for fishing

52’00” notes people like to be called native – not Indian

52’30” Bridget asks Mary what she thinks that has changed that is good? She thinks that the good things are better homes, electricity, cars, education, transportation and better roads. She fears there isn’t as much closeness as there was years ago among families – now people sit at home and watch TV. “People use to do things together – they don’t anymore.” Mary points out that another good thing is that people now get pensions.

56’00 Mary John speaks about her sewing business that she now has and the making of mukluks and moccasins

57’00 Bridget recalls bringing her Mother to Stoney Creek Reserve c.1954 and her mother noting her poor life in Ireland and recalling the poor people she saw on the reserve at that time and telling Bridget she had to help those people

59’00 they both refer to poor services done by the Department of Indian Affairs in the 1950s

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

Context: Recording is the continuation of earlier sessions by Bridget and Mary John talking about her life – appears to continue on from the other tape sessions numbered to #8 [Accession # 2008.3.1.211.4]

Side 1: “Mary John #9”
0’05” Bridget interviews Mary John and asks about Mary John’s grandmother who lived at the reserve at Fort George. Mary notes that her grandmother was sent back to Fort George and then to Stoney Creek after husband died. Her Grandmother remarried; she died in the 1950s. Mary talks about her grandmother’s marriage with Za (Jean) Paul – that was not an arranged marriage; her Grandmother “she had a hard life”

4’00” – 7’30” Mary Johns’ mother married Johnny Paul – not arranged; Mary notes that she was born in Fort George. Mary lived with her Grandmother Ann on reserve in Fort George. Mary then talks about her sister Bella – who married Mike Ketlo (sp?) and their children. She died of tuberculosis in the 1950s.

7’40” Bridget asks about the Mission School in Fort St. James – near the church “that is on Mission land” Which is where the village originally started. They talk about the church’s history briefly.

9’00”-14’00” Bridget asks Mary about her schooling at Lejac – Mary says they had reading, writing, arithmetic, penmanship and history. There was no science taught. Mary then describes the routine at Lejac. Doing chores and then breakfast at about 7:30 and then did cleaning chores in the dormitories. Then they attended their classes; then lunch, then played outside and then came back for sewing or embroidery, knitting and then back in classes until 4:00pm. Mary describes recreation – swimming, playing in the field, chores – pulling roots/stumps etc. Bridget talks about Joanne (Fiske?) thesis on the distinction between native boys and native girls’ activities and education at the residential school and that it enabled them to go to work in the hospitals and offices but that the farming education that was taught to the boys didn’t help them as there was no agriculture on the reserves. Mary notes she was ‘teachers pet’ as she had music lessons for singing. Mary notes she didn’t do anything in the kitchen but took mail to the post office and looking after the office for the Mother Superior. She feels she learned ‘the basics’ [but] then they ‘kicked you out at 16’

15’00” Bridget asks about the differences in disciplining methods of children – she notes that it is not part of Indian culture to spank children. She notes it is part of her husband’s sisters to discipline her children – not her or her husband’s duty

17’00” Mary talks about the residents at Stoney Creek who objected to school at Lejac because of harsh disciplinary methods used with their children

18’00” Mary talks briefly about the food at Lejac and speaks briefly to another unidentified woman [Sabrina?] in the room about food preparation [canning?]

19’50” Bridget asks about the Stoney Creek residents who wanted to have a school at the village in the 1950s and wanted their children to go to school there.

20’00” Mary speaks briefly about Father Coccola and that he did the negotiation about the move of the people from the reserve at Fort George to Shelley and about some compensation acquired by the residents. Bridget notes he ‘did not do a favour to the Indians’ – Mary notes that they were forced to leave ‘very illegal’

22’00” Mary speaks again about Father Coccola who could be ‘a very strict man’ but who took care of the people when they were sick and dying

23’00” Mary talks about another priest (unidentified) that she really liked who gave her a job c.1935 when she and her husband cleared land for Lejac and the priest treated them really well. She thinks he was from the Yukon as he had gold nuggets

25’00” Mary talks about her children going to Lejac in the 1950’s

26’00” Bridget talks about a social worker who came to Stoney Creek in c.1955 and Bridget was asked to come out by the Indian Agent to investigate what was the issue. This social worker was scared of being on the reserve; Mary thinks this woman had marital problems and drank a lot

28’00” Mary talks about the Day school operating c.1951 for a short time and the kids were bussed back and forth; other kids ‘orphans’ went to Lejac (lived there)

Tape is poor after this; noise with squeals and recording is faster

29’00” Mary talks about her children (Helen and the boys) not liking Lejac. She notes that one of the boys didn’t like it ‘but didn’t complain’ about it. She notes that ‘no one would talk about it’ “the whole village would be silent” when they left; and the children would be crying.

30’00”-33’00” Bridget asks Mary to discuss her wedding in more detail – Bridget notes that she already has on tape about the wedding night itself but asks for more information about the wedding day. Mary begins to talk about the wedding; there was a Mass, the guests and there was a band….

Tape is unintelligible after this; recording is broken up with interference and then there is no recording End of side 1

Side 2 “Mary John #10”
This side of the cassette has no recording

Audio recording is of an interview that Bridget Moran conducts with a Mrs. Thompson held in Success, Saskatchewan. Mrs. Thompson talks about municipal politics in the rural town of Success, Saskatchewan when Jimmie (her husband?) was on the Council. Most of the interview relates to Mrs. Thompson’s account of the marital and domestic life Alfie (Guy?) who was another town councilor and known as a local poet.

Audiocassette Summary
Side 1

00’05” Moran asks Mrs. Thompson about the time that Jimmie (her husband?) was on the Council in Success. She recalls when her husband joined the Municipal Council and notes it was for 6-7 years; c.1960s. Bridget asks her to explain the conflict between Jimmie and Alfie (Guy?) who was also on the Success Municipal Council. Bridget refers to Alfie and how he wrote books of poetry.

04’00” Mrs. Thompson recalls Jimmie joining the Council at the time of the municipal conflict about the selling of the Sports ground and that was the time that Colleen [?] also joined the Council. Mrs. Thompson recalls getting involved in the dispute and that she encouraged the community’s women to vote on the issue of this, as well as the assessment role and taxation dispute. Notes that the town was divided “into two camps” on the issue. Also talks about the other issues that Jimmie became involved in including need to better roads in the town.

14’00” Bridget asks her about Alfie and him being a poet. Mrs. Thompson talks about Alfie returning to town after World War II and about his relationship with his first wife Lil. They eventually divorce and he remarried three more times. Most of this section is about his relationship with his second wife.

25’00” Mrs. Thompson notes that Alfie is still alive and is in his 80’s and still writes poetry. She recounts one poem he wrote entitled ‘Town of Purple Gas’ and provides an account of how he was inspired to write this – someone in town was putting an unknown substance in the gas that turned it purple… Bridget notes he was ‘quite the character.’

End of Tape

File consists of recorded audio interviews:

• Interview: James McCallum (Tape 1), prior to 1983; possibly 1979 or 1980
• Interview: James McCallum (Tape 2), prior to 1983; possibly 1979 or 1980
• Interview: “A Child’s Christmas in Saskatchewan”, December 1980
• Interview: Recording of Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, post February 1958; c.1958-c.1960 [?]
• Interview: Mrs. Thompson [sp?] Interview, 16 April 1981
• Interview: “Where Winds Come Sweet”, April 13, 1981