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Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

00’05” Bridget is interviewing Mary John who discusses a potlatch held at Stoney Creek that Bridget attended. Bridget asks about the talking stick and she asks Mary John to explain its significance. Mary explains there had been a naming ceremony about a year ago and that a woman named Maisie had changed clans from her mother to her father’s clan. Mary notes while this is unusual, her father’s only son had died and therefore requested that the daughter changed clans. At this ‘September potlatch’ therefore this woman had to change tables at the potlatch.

04’00” Mary explains the context of the September Potlatch. She notes that Maisie had hosted this potlatch to pay back for the gifts that had been provided for her from a year ago when she received a new name. They then discuss the amount of money that the host gave to the guests and the amount of money that is normally provided – there is no particular amount ‘whatever you wish’ Mary notes she had provided Maisie with a gift last year of $100 but that Maisie gave her back $200 – that is not required – there is no required amount

07’30” Mary explains that at a potlatch you are expected to bring a case or few bags of food

08’00” Mary discusses the type of food provided at a potlatch; it is traditional food not western food; Bridget notes there was caribou provided there. Mary explains that the host of a potlatch asks people to hunt for moose and deer meat in order to prepare for the food to be served. Bridget then talks about the food that was served and Mary notes it included also fish and beaver.

11’00” Bridget asks Mary to talk about the gifts given to her daughter Flo at the potlatch in exchange for a loan she provided to another woman whose husband had died a year before. Bridget notes it was a ‘touching’ moment.

12’00” Mary talks about the Priest ‘Father Brian’ who was at the potlatch. Four clans collected money and gave it to the priest for his work [missionary work?]

15’07” Mary explains the situation of Geraldine Thomas –that at the potlatch she was not seated before; that is she was not initiated before and so she was seated at the potlatch

15’57” Tape stops momentarily

16’09” Mary continues to talk about Geraldine and the potlatch events; the significance of the tapping of the talking stick; then she was seated and guests give her gifts. Then Mary talks about Ernie and her late daughter Helen who also wanted to cross their clan but that Mary ‘did not let her go’

20’00” Mary talks about the feelings of a child who gives up their clan and that it is like ‘giving up one of your children’ as Celina noted to Bridget at the event.

21’00” Mary talks about her son Ernie who crossed over to his father’s clan and that he was gifted at the potlatch

22’00” Bridget then notes that at this potlatch that the Frog Clan became host of the Grouse clan at this potlatch. Mary explains that the clan then had debts to pay at this potlatch.

26’00” Mary talks about the death of Stoney Creek members; she is unsure when there will be another potlatch in Stoney Creek.

28’00” Bridget notes that she did not understand the ceremony as it was in Carrier language; however Bridget notes it is a pity the white world doesn’t see potlatches as they are ‘so touching’

31’00” Mary explains that each clan takes care of the deceased family members and takes care of putting up the headstone

32’00” Tape ends abruptly

File consists of recorded audio interviews:

• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 1 & 2, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 3 & 4, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 5 & 6, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John, [Tape] 7 & 8, c.1986-1987
• Interview: Mary John 9 & 10 [#908 March 1985 CBC?], March 1985 [?] or c.1986-1987 [?]
• Interview: Mary John, August 1987
• Interview: Mary John - Cheslatta, 6 July 1993
• Interview: Mary John Potlatch, Terrace, B.C., 9 September 1991

File consists of a videocassette (VHS) recording of Mary John at Metlakatla in May 1994, originally filmed on a handheld camcorder on Video 8 cassette. Bridget noted in a later 1994 interview with Bob Harkins that this road trip was conducted for them to attend the basic education class at Metlakatla; this recording has also been reformatted on DVD.

Videocassette Summary

Context: Video-recording conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John on their road trip to Metlakatla to visit the Elders Group there.

Highlights Include:
0’:05” Bridget Moran records on videotape Mary John in New Hazelton at the road side

1’00” Bridget Moran records on videotape Mary John in front of the totem poles in K’san ‘Old Hazelton’ and note they are heading by car to Prince Rupert

2’00”At Metlakatla Mary is shown eating fried dried seaweed in a hall in Metlakatla with a group of people

7’:35” Mary discusses working in the hospital and financially having a hard time as her husband was out of a job due to change in logging practices. He had a difficult time being at home and Mary sometimes had to walk to work to Vanderhoof, a distance 9+ miles from Stoney Creek. Talks about a time of having to walk to work on the ice and put bales of hay in her boots to walk on the ice

10’:35” Talks about the difficulties of working in the white world

11’:15” Talks about the time that her son made his First Communion; priest offered to buy lunch for all the children; Mary remembers having him ask if she and her son could come into the restaurant as normally they were not allowed to go to the restaurants

14’30” Sandra explains how they had decided to invite Mary to Metlakatla; she had read the Stoney Creek Woman book and wondered if Mary was still alive; she called the Band office in Vanderhoof and was connected with Mary’s niece who asks if she would come to Metlakatla. And then decided to invite Bridget as well.

18’37” Mary talks about the origin of certain Carrier place names for the various lakes in the Stoney Creek area and notes that many white people could not pronounce the names and so they became an anglicized version of native name. Explains the origin of the Bednesti Lake name

21’:55” Mary John explains about how liquor first coming into the territory and talks about how some of the men went on the train to join the war. She sings and drums a song called ‘Passenger Song’ and then explains the song

25’:43” Mary performs the ‘Four Winds’ song

26’:37” Mary talks about how the dancing had died out at Stoney Creek and c.1960 it was recommended that the dancing come back with a pageant to celebrate the 100th anniversary of missionaries arriving in their territory. The celebration was recorded on film. Talks about how dancing has been revived and now is taught to the children

30’30” Talks about the costumes made for the dancing. Talks about a moose hide she made for Eddie John

31’30” Bridget notes that Mary is now making a vest for Justa Monk who Bridget notes she has written a book about;

32:45” Bridget refers to the opening of UNBC and the coming of the Queen to open the University and how some native people in Prince George were against her opening UNBC

34’:40” Talks about the role of the Indian Agent historically

35’00” Talks about the role of policing in the native community and how to improve it

36’53” Bridget is recording Mary John outdoors at Lejac where they are looking at ruins of the old buildings. Mary points out the old Post Office building; Mary then shows the ruins of the old school and talks about segregation of the boys and girls at the school; she shows the play room of the old school; visits a cemetery and shows where Father Coccola is buried; then shows the buildings at Lejac old school buildings

Video temporarily stops

42’45” Shows Mary John back at her house in Stoney Creek

42’50” Bridget asks what is the most common question asked by people – of what do you want for your people – Mary states ‘hang on to culture and get an education”

43’40” Mary states that conditions have improved slightly [compared to 1976 at the time of Coreen Thomas’ inquest] but not to the level that she would like to see – as there are still alcohol, drug and unemployment problems

44’32” Mary notes that the preservation of the language has been ‘really good’ that the Elders are teaching other adults about their culture so that they can teach children; she notes that many Elders can speak Carrier really well – compared to the group noting at Metlakatla that not as many can speak their language.
46’00” Mary states there are many students at the [Yinka Dene] Language Institute; about 15-20 students

47’:24” Mary notes that ‘Potlatches are very important to our culture’ and that the Elders managed to save it

48’01” Mary refers to their road trip back from Metlakatla and their stop at Lejac. She talks about Lejac and how it is now destroyed – it would be better to preserve it and show what had happened there – Bridget compares it to the concentration camps in Germany and the preservation of those buildings to show the horrors of what went on there

49’13” Mary says she doesn’t dwell on the memories of LeJac – she had been there 72 years ago

50’00” Mary talks about the start up of the Potlatch House and the set up of a learning centre and the need to have it create work for the young people – Bridget notes that the potlatch house is now the centre of village activity

52’15” Bridget and Mary John reminisce about ’our’ book – and Bridget notes it was a ‘labour of love’ Mary notes that the book has made a difference – to treat First Nations people more like people – to show [others] [the impact] of racism

54’00” Bridget asks Mary to show the button blanket that Mary was given in Metlakatla and Bridget refers to the button blanket she was given as well. [The blanket is designed as a traditional Northwest Coast Button Blank; on the back of the blanket it is embroidered with beadwork in a circular pattern with the inscription ‘Keep the Circle Strong’ Bridget notes that the Elders there had a wonderful dinner for us as well.

54’58” Bridget videotapes Mary outside by the lake and she shows the outside of the log house which is the Potlatch House at Stoney Creek. She then shows the interior of the building which has photos of Elders on the wall.

Videotape ends

File consists of a Video 8 recording of Mary John in Metlakatla. : Bridget noted in a later 1994 interview with Bob Harkins that this road trip was conducted for Mary and her to attend the basic education class at Metlakatla. This recording has also been reformatted on DVD. This version of Mary John: Metlakatla is the original version filmed using a Video 8 videocassette formatted for hand-held camcorders. The version of Mary John: Metlakatla comprising 2008.3.1.202 is a master copy.

Videocassette Summary
Context: Video-recording conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John on their road trip to Metlakatla to visit the Elders Group there.

Highlights Include:
0’:05” Bridget Moran records on videotape Mary John in New Hazelton at the road side

1’00” Bridget Moran records on videotape Mary John in front of the totem poles in K’san ‘Old Hazelton’ and note they are heading by car to Prince Rupert

2’00”At Metlakatla Mary is shown eating fried dried seaweed in a hall in Metlakatla with a group of people

7’:35” Mary discusses working in the hospital and financially having a hard time as her husband was out of a job due to change in logging practices. He had a difficult time being at home and Mary sometimes had to walk to work to Vanderhoof, a distance 9+ miles from Stoney Creek. Talks about a time of having to walk to work on the ice and put bales of hay in her boots to walk on the ice

10’:35” Talks about the difficulties of working in the white world

11’:15” Talks about the time that her son made his First Communion; priest offered to buy lunch for all the children; Mary remembers having him ask if she and her son could come into the restaurant as normally they were not allowed to go to the restaurants

14’30” Sandra explains how they had decided to invite Mary to Metlakatla; she had read the Stoney Creek Woman book and wondered if Mary was still alive; she called the Band office in Vanderhoof and was connected with Mary’s niece who asks if she would come to Metlakatla. And then decided to invite Bridget as well.

18’37” Mary talks about the origin of certain Carrier place names for the various lakes in the Stoney Creek area and notes that many white people could not pronounce the names and so they became an anglicized version of native name. Explains the origin of the Bednesti Lake name

21’:55” Mary John explains about how liquor first coming into the territory and talks about how some of the men went on the train to join the war. She sings and drums a song called ‘Passenger Song’ and then explains the song

25’:43” Mary performs the ‘Four Winds’ song

26’:37” Mary talks about how the dancing had died out at Stoney Creek and c.1960 it was recommended that the dancing come back with a pageant to celebrate the 100th anniversary of missionaries arriving in their territory. The celebration was recorded on film. Talks about how dancing has been revived and now is taught to the children

30’30” Talks about the costumes made for the dancing. Talks about a moose hide she made for Eddie John

31’30” Bridget notes that Mary is now making a vest for Justa Monk who Bridget notes she has written a book about;

32:45” Bridget refers to the opening of UNBC and the coming of the Queen to open the University and how some native people in Prince George were against her opening UNBC

34’:40” Talks about the role of the Indian Agent historically

35’00” Talks about the role of policing in the native community and how to improve it

36’53” Bridget is recording Mary John outdoors at Lejac where they are looking at ruins of the old buildings. Mary points out the old Post Office building; Mary then shows the ruins of the old school and talks about segregation of the boys and girls at the school; she shows the play room of the old school; visits a cemetery and shows where Father Coccola is buried; then shows the buildings at Lejac old school buildings

Video temporarily stops

42’45” Shows Mary John back at her house in Stoney Creek

42’50” Bridget asks what is the most common question asked by people – of what do you want for your people – Mary states ‘hang on to culture and get an education”

43’40” Mary states that conditions have improved slightly [compared to 1976 at the time of Coreen Thomas’ inquest] but not to the level that she would like to see – as there are still alcohol, drug and unemployment problems

44’32” Mary notes that the preservation of the language has been ‘really good’ that the Elders are teaching other adults about their culture so that they can teach children; she notes that many Elders can speak Carrier really well – compared to the group noting at Metlakatla that not as many can speak their language.
46’00” Mary states there are many students at the [Yinka Dene] Language Institute; about 15-20 students

47’:24” Mary notes that ‘Potlatches are very important to our culture’ and that the Elders managed to save it

48’01” Mary refers to their road trip back from Metlakatla and their stop at Lejac. She talks about Lejac and how it is now destroyed – it would be better to preserve it and show what had happened there – Bridget compares it to the concentration camps in Germany and the preservation of those buildings to show the horrors of what went on there

49’13” Mary says she doesn’t dwell on the memories of LeJac – she had been there 72 years ago

50’00” Mary talks about the start up of the Potlatch House and the set up of a learning centre and the need to have it create work for the young people – Bridget notes that the potlatch house is now the centre of village activity

52’15” Bridget and Mary John reminisce about ’our’ book – and Bridget notes it was a ‘labour of love’ Mary notes that the book has made a difference – to treat First Nations people more like people – to show [others] [the impact] of racism

54’00” Bridget asks Mary to show the button blanket that Mary was given in Metlakatla and Bridget refers to the button blanket she was given as well. [The blanket is designed as a traditional Northwest Coast Button Blank; on the back of the blanket it is embroidered with beadwork in a circular pattern with the inscription ‘Keep the Circle Strong’ Bridget notes that the Elders there had a wonderful dinner for us as well.

54’58” Bridget videotapes Mary outside by the lake and she shows the outside of the log house which is the Potlatch House at Stoney Creek. She then shows the interior of the building which has photos of Elders on the wall.

Videotape ends

File consists of a videocassette (VHS) recording of Mary John & Bridget Moran at the College of New Caledonia, March 12, 1991.

Videocassette Summary

Context: Bridget Moran and Mary John speaking to students at CNC, specific class unidentified.

Introduction: Bridget identifies that she will make the introductory speech and Mary will answer any questions because Mary doesn’t like to make speeches even though she is very good at it. Bridget’s connection with Mary and with Stoney Creek Reserve: Bridget Moran (BM) came to Prince George in 1954 as a social worker and soon after went to the Stoney Creek reserve. At that time the Indian Agent was in control of reserves and social workers were only called on to a reserve if they had to remove a child that was been abused or neglected. The state of reserves was horrible. BM made a promise to her mother that she would at some point do something about the impoverished state of reserves. In 1964 she was suspended by the provincial govt. for speaking out against current social policy. After writing her second published book Judgement at Stoney Creek she met Mary through Mary’s daughter Helen. Helen felt that Mary’s life was typical and yet a bit more significant than the average native woman and so approached Bridget to write a book about her mother’s life. BM put it off due to her busy career in social work. About 1983-84 Mary got sick and BM was afraid she wouldn’t have chance to capture Mary’s life story. So she took her motor home out to Stoney Creek and recorded Mary’s story – Mary beaded, while she knitted and they just talked. Once the book was written, BM’s daughter Roseanne became BM’s agent. After inquest in 1976 she had started 2nd published book Judgement at Stoney Creek but her publishers were not supportive of publishing books about Natives at that time. BM then wrote Stoney Creek Woman (SCW) and published it; after which time Judgement was better received. SCW now recommended in schools. Since publication they have done many talks across the province. Writing SCW was hard but wonderful in that Mary was able to share her feelings with BM. When the book was coming out Mary was very nervous, it came out on Nov. 12, 1988. Mary read the book and was really angry about reliving what had happened to her people. BM talks about thoughts of a 2nd book re: Mary’s thoughts on the environment and her culture. BM gives Mary the floor for questions.

[Note: most student questions were inaudible and so only replies have been noted below]

MJ: She was very upset about the Supreme Court decision. She speaks about how free her people used to be. They could stop and make camp anywhere – this was no longer the case as all is private property. There are greater alcohol problems in north. They are holding workshops in Stoney Creek to help the young people. The older people know what to do, beadwork, etc. the young people don’t like to do traditional tasks, even for cash. The elders try to teach them. She has about 5 boys working doing wood for elders but they have no axe so she had to get one for them They are so poor on reserves. The elders try everything – elders tried a wood processing plant - for 10yrs they studied this. Had people from Switzerland and Germany lined up who wanted the wood but they still didn’t get anywhere.

BM: People are now living better in Stoney Creek. When she first visited a reserve tuberculosis (TB) was rampant. In 1954 so many people had TB and they were all treated away from home. This left people at home (mainly women) to raise the children by themselves. We have social network now that was not existent in ’54. Still compared to the majority of society, reserve conditions are comparable to living conditions in the 3rd world.

MJ: Some reserves like Ft. Ware are just desperate. One night staying in a medical house, a child 10 or 11 was wondering around at night in the rain. When they got up in morning and he came into the centre and had breakfast. They asked him why he was outside all night. He said he was trying to catch horses. This boy was enamored with the cowboy hat and leather jacket another boy there was wearing. This other boy told him he would buy a hat and coat for him when he returned home. By the time the package was sent, the young boy was dead from sniffing gas.

BM: People are depressed and alcohol and drugs is one way to cope

MJ: Men drinking early in morning, she talked to them. One guy hadn’t worked a day in his life. She asked him why he drinking. One guy says he just drinks once and awhile that is wasn’t a problem. The other guy left as didn’t want to hear the truth. She says they need a job – something to live for.

MJ: She tells children to get educated and then come back to the reserve and help their people - like Eddie John and Archie Patrick did. [Discussion on environment]: The Elders group comes together and talks about environment: how the earth is being stripped dry. This worries them. The animals are not there. Years ago, they were so poor, they just had basic food. Their cupboard was in the bush, they were so busy trying to make a living while the men were out logging trying make money. The men logged by hand and the land still looks untouched. That is how they earned a living, and the land is not scarred.
Years ago people were not fearful of sickness, there was no sickness, and there were hardly any accidents as everyone was so used to the bush. The only thing her people feared was starvation. After the 1918 flu many orphans were left. One old lady took them in and had hardly any food herself. In the spring she had a cache in ground she had buried there. She sent 2 children to it to dig it up. When the children brought the supplies back to camp the old woman gave ½ fish to each child. They were like hungry dogs. The elders keep telling people, when hunting/fishing don’t waste anything in fear of starvation. One old lady said they were starving and went into bush and found mouse droppings and even that they cooked. With a moose, you eat all of it, right down to the marrow.

MJ: The elders organized themselves and did workshops to learn how to help their young people. Many deaths among young people.

BM: Suicide rate among natives is 2-3x’s higher than among non-natives

MJ: The elders have tried everything to help with the problems of young people. But the youth drift away as they have no interest.

BM: One of the psychiatrists she talked to said that one of the best preventions for suicide is for kids to have a goal to work towards. Native youth have no goals, no education, no jobs, nothing to look forward to.

MJ: Her daughter doesn’t like to be on welfare. She was searching for job. The Elders gave her a job watching over traps but this had to be shut down due to lack of money for furs. She then put her name in as a janitor for the highschool in Vanderhoof but was turned down. MJ furious because they [the white people] in that school wouldn’t even let her daughter clean up their shit!

BM: Northern communities with large native populations, like Fort St. James or Vanderhoof, rely on the money brought in by the native community; yet most businesses don’t employ natives. The natives have to realize their own economic power.

MJ: The elders started a bingo night and were going to hold a fishing derby. They sent a young man into Vanderhoof to find donations for the derby. He went to the Elks club and was told he’d get nothing there because Stoney Creek took away their bingo night. Her people had supported them [the Vanderhoof bingo night] for years and years before, but as soon as the natives had their own bingo night they were not supporting the one in Vanderhoof anymore.

MJ: She told her husband she was going to PG to talk about the book. He has no problem with it.

BM: Lazare doesn’t read or write.

MJ: He went to school at Lejac for 2 years. Now all he can do is sign his name. It’s sad.

BM: Joanne Fisk just completed PhD, she teaches at Dalhousie but she used to spend summers in Stoney Creek and she did her thesis on Lejac. Her thesis was that residential schools were of some help to girls but were disastrous for boys. The girls learned to read and write; while few boys came out of residential schools who could read or write. All they did was hard work out in the fields. When preparing for Judgement, she spoke with Coreen Thomas’ father. He attended Lejac for 6 years, he was beaten and worked like a horse, and he couldn’t read or write. He cried for 2 hrs when BM told him she was going to write a book about his daughter. Sophie Thomas, however, felt she learned a lot out of Lejac – how to sew, read and write and make bread. Men learned nothing to help them make a living.

MJ: Last fall, there was a conflict between town and reserve children. Vanderhoof citizens didn’t want reserve children attending the town school. It cooled down. The school on reserve only teaches kindergarten, and grades 1-3.

MJ: Her daughter-in-laws, Gracie and Mary are teaching. The elders are going to have a summer camp at Wedgewood fish camp. It is going to be a survival camp.

MJ: They have dancers. They try to revive the language and culture. There aren’t too many storytellers. Selina and Veronica are two elders who are good storytellers. She’s going to try and get hold Veronica and tape one of her stories, she has taped 3 of them already. The elders are training the teachers (of language) and working on dictionaries and some books.

MJ: The population on her people is about 500 and increasing. Most people are out in towns, like Vanderhoof, and PG. There are about 400 people living on reserve but housing is really bad.

MJ: She says her people were trying to get a grant to get money for wood processing. The Swedish people had their own plans. There was a place on reserve with a railroad that was all set up for wood processing but the DIA had a problem with the funding. The band hired a consultant in Burnaby to put their proposal together. The DIA said they would hire Price Waterhouse to study the study the band produced and there it stayed.

MJ: Her son Ernie started logging on the reserve in ’78 or ‘79. He hired boys from the reserve. Somehow DIA got in and said his work was a conflict and that he couldn’t log on reserve. He already had all the heavy equipment. Her son-in-law, a white man, a businessman living on reserve had helped Ernie to get all this machinery. After the DIA came in, they took this logging business away from him, he lost his machinery. He was so desperate, she thought he would commit suicide. He left for Fort St. James. She was so worried. The DIA needed him to sign some papers but a friend they had within the DIA told Ernie not to sign these papers so Ernie ran. Mary was so angry at the DIA she felt ready to kill, she even had a big rock in her hand when the DIA came looking for her son. Her daughter told her not to do it. Ernie refused to sign. He lost all the machinery. That is where the DIA puts us.

BM: CBC did a series after Oka, looking at Natives across the country trying to start businesses, and in every case they were sabotaged. As long as natives are poor and uneducated, a lot of people in DIA have good jobs.

MJ: Reserve stories pretty hard. Her people tried ranching, they had 150 head of cattle. Years ago an Indian agent, a good man, told her to start ranching on reserve. He’d give them so many acres on CP land
– “certificate of possession”. Some people still have CP land and they can do what they like with it, but they can’t sell it.

BM: There are divisions among natives. She was interviewed by reporter to talk about how there wasn’t one cohesive voice speaking for all natives. She said that was hard, and that natives, as with white people, don’t speak with one voice – just look at the Legislature. Different groups among natives? Of course.

MJ: Years ago, one family lived in one house and got along. It is not the same anymore - family separates so much. Children are taken away. When she got married she lived with 3 families in one house. Long ago there would live one clan in one long house and everyone got along.

MJ: In 1970, her people were allowed to send children to catholic schools in town only. The children were not allowed in public schools. So she went to Ottawa to lobby for the freedom to send native children to any schools they want. She talked to Chretian, the then Minister of Education. Since then they have had that freedom.

MJ: Some families have tried everything: Christian schools, public schools. She’s not sure where they are sending children now - public school is a bad influence! (laughs). Families often sendthei children to Christian schools. There is a high drop out rate. She’s not sure why. In public schools children have choice of what to take. Young people are not “with it”. When children graduate…she took some teenage dancers to Missouri one year. She asked these children where they were, and some said USSR and she says they are not “with it”. They didn’t know anything about the country they were in.

BM: Recently she spoke with teachers and found out that 20% of students at PGSS are now native and yet there is not one native teacher. She found in last 5-7 years, more native people have been coming to PG so as to give their children a better education. But the education system isn’t supportive of them and their children go under. There is one native counselor at PGSS - that’s it. Teachers they talked to spoke to Mary about the differences and frustrations they had with the way native children were raised; such as how native children will look at the floor when speaking to teachers and will then get into trouble.

MJ: Children are taught not to look into eyes as this is like a challenge to the person speaking. They must look down at their own feet and humble themselves. That’s a problem. She says they have to trust [the teachers?]. When a native student is in school and having problems, it helps them to be able to talk to another native person.

MJ: Trust is hard with white people.

MJ: As long as there are reserves, people stay on reserves. Natives get lost in society when they go to towns.

MJ: She will go anywhere to get what she needs from the bush. In the bush she feels close to the earth and at home, she doesn’t feel that way in PG.

BM: Mary and her went to Vancouver in the spring of ’89. Mary stayed with her daughter-in-law at UBC and she couldn’t wait to get back to reserve to find something to do!

MJ: She couldn’t do anything, it was just like a chicken coop. You can’t work outside. She would die if had to stay in a place like that.

BM: The chances of native culture surviving is so much better now than it was 30-40 years ago. It came close to dying out. There is now a pride in being native and an interest in being native that wasn’t there when she started in social work. Back then people were almost ashamed of being native.

MJ: She agrees with Bridget. Many times she was ashamed of her food, the way they talked, everything was against us. Many young people she speaks with are coming back to reserves. In the ‘20-‘30s, her sister-in-law married a non-status Indian and from then on felt she was different because she could go to liquor store, etc. She became ashamed to be seen with Indians. She wouldn’t talk to them on street but would accept them in her home.

MJ: In the potlatch system, her sister-in-law is a higher rank than she is. It would cost MJ a lot of money to raise her status within their clan system. Her sister-in-law is a spokes person in their clan but she had to pay for it. She was given a name and a song. She has to look after her behaviour and all that. She asked Mary to make a blanket for her son many years ago. MJ had been watching him and he wasn’t behaving well. Finally she made that blanket but for another person because he wasn’t ready. He has to behave himself.

MJ: Her children would take her clan, not Lazare’s clan. You cannot marry into your own clan – they are like brother and sister, if that is going to happen they have to separate from the clan.

MJ: They are trying to include all young people. They have a white man married to a native girl, who is very active with the elders and he is a drummer now. They are going to initiate them into her clan.
Another one is also very good with elders. His grandfather is pure Indian but married a white women and so lost much native blood. But now he wants to learn all about his culture. She has all his grandfather’s regalia as he had no one to receive it, but she intends on giving it to his grandson.

BM: The culture is still alive at Stoney Creek. Things are still done in the old way. It is sad that the non- native world cannot see this culture alive.

MJ: If you have a problem, you would ask the family in opposite clan to help you. Such as money for a sick child to go to Vancouver for operation. Or with a funeral, like when her daughter Helen died, people helped her. People helped out while she was watching daughter in hospital, then they paid for the funeral. One year later, her clan put up potlatch and paid back all that was done for her family. In the clan system there is always someone to help.

BM: At the potlatch she attended their were clan members that came from all over BC

MJ: No negative things came from publishing this book. Although one doctor, Dr. Mooney said there wasn’t separate wings for whites and natives at the Vanderhoof hospital. But she remembers this as so.

BM: As a social worker she saw separate wings. She only had one negative encounter with Dr. Jolly – a good friend of Mary’s and of the native peoples around Stoney Creek. She went to Nanaimo for a signing and saw Dr. Jolly there. He said he was angry about the book and wanted to know why, if there was racism, didn’t MJ go and talk to someone. BM asked him who MJ would talk to, the Mayor? She explained that when you are repressed you don’t feel you can go and talk to someone in power. He felt Stoney Creek had been so wonderful for him and the knowledge of this racism distressed him. With her second book, nothing bad yet has come out of it, yet she’s heard nothing really out of Vanderhoof. Most people accept that there is racism and take it from there. Going to Vanderfhoof with Mary is like going to Vanderhoof with royalty. Her own reserve is also very proud of her.

MJ: Indian people are very shy and she wondered how her people would react to the book. Everyone who read the book liked it.

BM: 100’s of people told her that after reading the book they just didn’t realize the situation. Mary’s life has then broadened their understanding of what it meant to be native and a native woman.

MJ: She speaks to her sister-in-law or Veronica about the old days and the young people.

MJ: The reserve has a special constable from the Queen Charlottes who comes and visits her all the time. He is native but he is scared of the Carrier people. She tells him he is welcome, and to feel at home. His boss had told him to go from door to door on the reserve to see who’s living there. He doesn’t want to and she tells him not to, unless he’s asked in. His boss came to see her. She told him that plan wasn’t good and he listened.

BM: Mary has a daughter-in-law who is in the RCMP in Ft. St. James.

MJ: She was in Vancouver working in dispatch. She came home, but now she’s in Regina for more training.

MJ: Her people still have the RCMP out for salmon feast every year. They like it better at Wedgewood. She cooks bannock over the fire.

Instructor: Thank you very much.

Clapping from audience.

File consists of documents related the May John and "Stoney Creek Woman" including a laser copy of a group photograph featuring Lazare and Mary John, Bridget Moran, and Justa Monk, a programme for memorial service held in honour of Lazare Peter John (Thursday, April 11, 1996), "An Elder's Message: Address to the Western Consortium on Aboriginal Languages by Elder Mary John OAC" (Yinka Dene Language Institute, Annual Report, Spring 1997), a faxed formal announcement from Arsenal Pulp Press re: publication of a new edition of Stoney Creek Woman (June 11, 1997), a photocopy of Saikuz Cookbook: Sharing Our Cooking Culture (1984), and "Environment Presentation" by Mary John Sr. (May 29-30, 1997).

File consists of photocopies and original newspaper clipping: "Story of survival still lives on" (The Free Press, Aug. 17, 1997), photocopies and original newspaper clipping: "Stoney Creek Woman named as a member of Order of Canada" (The Citizen, Jan. 10, 1997), photocopies and original Guardian newspaper containing article "Top honour to Stony Creek elder" (May/June 1997).

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content: Tape consists of a recording of Bridget interviewing Mary John primarily about her visit to the former native village site of Cheslatta

Side 1
Interview in process

00’05” Bridget interviews Mary John, Mary is referring to Madeline her niece.

1’00” Bridget asks Mary what made her decide to go to Cheslatta – to see the site where she had lived. Bridget asks if it was a ‘rediscovery’ trip. Bridget asks if this is where the village was burned out and flooded out [by Kemano development] Mary talks about her son Ernie wanting to go there and create a territorial hunting ground. She talks about going there with her niece Madeline and Alex

8’40” Mary explains how they got to Cheslatta; the travel there was by van through Francois Lake and via logging roads; it took about hour and half drive

11’00” Mary explains it was not the village that had been flooded that they went to; not the original village; she notes there was a campsite set up for them but it was cold at night. There were people there from Stellaco, about 75 total. She describes making bannock on a stick over the fire ‘the real bannock’ for the youth – like an “Indian pizza” (she laughs)

16’00” Mary continues to talk about the activities that she did at Cheslatta; show the youth how to fish, spear fish, clean fish, cut in strips and smoke the fish. There was no smokehouse but they created a lean- to and smoked the fish. Mary also notes another day Mary and Madeline took the youth to the bush and talked to them about uses of trees –

22’00”-20’25” Mary describes the steps involved with showing the youth at the Cheslatta camp how to collect spruce in order to build a smoke house for smoking the fish

29’30” Mary discusses food that she prepared for the gathering for the people

31’00” Mary talks about the group visiting the old village Cheslatta after the gathering

Mary then leaves to attend to a crying baby [a great-grand-child?]; they greet the mother

33’00” Bridget refers to a group of kids she talked to at Kamloops about their book Stoney Creek Woman. Bridget tells Mary she has letters written to Mary John by several students who had read Bridget’s book that she wants to show her

36’00” They continue to talk about the former Cheslatta village and what the former village residents want to do about the village; Mary notes there are archaeologists working there. Mary states the people have not yet received compensation for being taken off their land. Bridget notes those people loss their sense of community

38’31” Mary remarks the people at Cheslatta “have a good chief” “very humble person”

39’40” Bridget asks Mary about the Lejac pilgrimage. Mary then talks about the pilgrimage that is held at Lejac and that she had just been there ‘on Sunday night’; she notes it is arranged by Celina; she notes there were Tache people there. Bridget asks if there are children buried at Lejac and Mary notes there are children and students buried there – about 15 to 20 buried there.

43’00” They briefly discuss if this was a rediscovery for the Cheslatta people at the event. Mary agrees; she notes she stayed there for 10 days; Bridget remarks it was similar to Mary’s former camp of what she had experienced at Wedgewood. They talk about Mary’s son Ernie and that he has in Bridget’s view ‘leadership qualities”

45’30” Bridget asks about getting a bannock recipe for a Senior’s cookbook. Mary begins to tell the recipe

Side 2
47’40” Mary continues to show Bridget how to make bannock

50’00” Mary briefly refers to the event at Cheslatta again

End of tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Context: Tape recording is an interview between Bridget and Mary John in which Bridget initially asks Mary John about events after the inquest into Coreen Thomas’s death. Bridget notes also that she wants to provide an update on Mary John’s life 10 years after the inquest.

Side 1
00’05” Bridget asks Mary John about her role in the Coreen Thomas inquest. Mary thinks that she discovered Coreen’s death due to the ringing of the church bells [to announce a death]. She tries to recall the series of events leading up to her time being involved in getting an inquest. Recalls Sophie Thomas’ desire to have an inquest into her death

6’00” -10’00” She recalls that the [Indian] Homemakers Association became involved in attempting to get an inquest. She says ‘she was just tagging along with it …I was not a fighter” Bridget notes that Harry Rankin stayed at Helen’s house when he represented the Homemakers Association at the inquest. Bridget recalls the ‘marvellous’ dinner that was put on for them at the time of the inquest by Mary John and Helen. Mary John notes it was at the invitation of the Homemakers Association for the group to come to her house.

10’:00”-14’00” Bridget and Mary talk about follow-up to the inquest and Coreen’s family.

14’50”- 25’00” Mary talks about her involvement as well as others in the creation of the Elders Society after the death of Mary’s son due to drowning in 1978. The Society had workshops in an effort to revive their culture with the hope of having the younger generations take pride in their culture. One of the activities was the building of the Potlatch House in 1980 where they did traditional activities including tanning of hides.Talks about acquiring the land to build the potlatch house and having the Chief take care of getting the land from BCR; the Society cleared the land twice over to set up the house. Mary explains that the Society acquired funding of $93,000.00 from ARDA [?] to clear the land from the logs and build the house.

26’00”-30’00” Mary talks about a new project that the Society has to build 10 rental tourist cabins as a business for the youth to operate. Bridget suggests it could be similar to that at K’san. Mary also explains that there is a cook-house at the Potlatch House as well and that it has been used for community events, weddings, dinners, organizational events also.

Tape stops momentarily and starts again

30’05”- 36’00” Mary talks about the drowning of her son and finding of his body in 1978 as well as other tragedies that happened in the community which led to the creation of the Elders Society to assist the youth

36’30” -39’30” Mary talks about the joys of finally having her own house and the building of the house

39’32” -42’40” Mary talks about the organizations that she is involved in now. She talks about a film made in the community about social workers coming in the community to work with Elders to care for issues related to youth. She notes that ‘that’s when the ice broke’ and it made a difference.

43’00” She talks about a dinner that she holds every year for the police officers to thank them for the service they do for society

43’30” Talks about fishing at Fraser Lake

44’00” -46’00” Mary talks about her work now at her house to teach the youth about their culture: making of baskets, moccasins, tanning of hides

End of side 1

Side 2
46’30”-48’00” Mary continues to talk about the activities that she does with native youth to educate them about their culture

48’50” Bridget asks about whether the youth are involved in tree-planting and asks another woman in the room (Bernice?)

50’00” – 56’00” Bridget asks what her three wishes are for her people: better lives; more education for the young people to have better jobs; they need to get out to the white world and not be so isolated; she refers to when she worked in ‘the white world’ She talks about the isolation of the reserve and yet the protection that it offers to the people as well. Bridget and Mary talk about the reserve offering a way to protect the native culture. Bridget asks why it is important to protect their culture. Mary notes their culture is so important; she notes that other cultures like Japan and China haven’t lost their culture so why should the natives.

56’05” Mary notes that none of the grandchildren speak Carrier and the need to protect their culture and language when being surrounded by a white community. Refers to her grandson Fabian who is in the room

57’00” Bridget recalls a Fort St. James woman who tried to keep native kids out of white schools. She wanted them to be kept on the reserve so that they didn’t lose their culture. She talks about the fight by many to get their native status back – those whose one parent is not native

58’00” Mary talks about her worries for the young native people in the community who fear they have no future and who have no employment or education.

End of tape

File consists of chapters 1-9 with revisions input.

File consists of drafts of manuscript "Mary and Me" by Bridget Moran [print outs generated by Archivist].

File consists of a draft copy of manuscript "Mary and Me" by Bridget Moran.

File consists of 1 CD-R entitled "Mary and Me" Fujifilm, 80min/700MB CD-R and printouts from CD-R including drafts of manuscript "Mary and Me" by Bridget Moran [print outs generated by Archivist from CD-R].

File consists of:

• Job 01-09 - original scans ; Chap 01-19 (no 16, 17, 18) edited version (July 27) [Floppy Disk - AT&T IBM Formatted, 2HD]
• Drafts of manuscript "Mary and Me" by Bridget Moran [print outs generated by Archivist from floppy disk].

File consists of a videocassette (VHS) recording of Mary & Lazare John’s 60th Anniversary Party.

Videocassette Summary

Context: Celebratory events for Mary and Lazare John’s 60th Wedding Anniversary, 1989.

Introduction: Party held in an auditorium. Head table in front of a curtained stage, decorated with a blue tablecloth. Streamers and pink, white and blue balloons provide a backdrop for the head table. Silver paper bells decorate the front of the table with a larger “60” sign on the front centre of the tablecloth. There is a large wedding cake situated between Lazare and Mary on the centre of the head table. Pink and white balloons and streamers decorate the walls of the hall.

Stoney Creek dancers (children of all ages) come to the centre of the dance floor to perform. Fifth dance is performed [video captured dance halfway through] to drumming and singing accompaniment. Sixth dance (inaudible title) is performed. Guests of all ages join in including Mary and Lazare. Seventh dance is called the “Chicken dance” where the boys are the roosters and the girls are the chickens. Eighth dance is the “Farewell dance”. A thanks goes out to the party guests for watching the dancers.

Various unidentified guests come to the back of the head table to wish Mary and Lazare their best.

Dan: He had heard about Mary and Lazare’s hospitality from Helen and (?) Prince. He and his family came to visit. They spent the night on the John floor. Mary helped his family and a young woman named Janai get a place in the Potlach house, and then on to the schoolhouse where they all spent the summer. (This family worked for a gospel mission). He spoke of the young woman named Janai who was now married to a Fijian and who would’ve loved to have been at their anniversary. He also introduced people from Wisconsin and from Fiji. The Fijian guests were going to perform some songs that expressed their connection to God. He congratulates Mary and Lazare on the 60 years together and again thanks them for helping opening Stoney Creek up to their missionary work.

Fijian guest sing several songs to an acoustic guitar and dance several dances to tape recorded Fijian music.

Unidentified woman from England and now in Thunder Bay says thank you to Lazare and Mary who allowed her stayed with them and their family for a time.

Unidentified man on guitar and woman sing a song for Mary and Lazare at the front of the head table.

Unidentified man with guitar sings a Johnny Cash (?) song at the front of the head table (song dedicated to a cousin from Sechelt). (“Big city turn me loose”?) Man sings second song originally by Randy Travis. He then plays guitar while two other unidentified men sing Hank Williams Sr. “There’s a Tear in my Beer”.

Unidentified woman sitting at front playing accordion while Winnie sings “Memories are made of this” (?)

End of tape

File consists of a videocassette (VHS) recording of Mary & Lazare John's 60th Anniversary Party.

Videocassette Summary

Context: Celebratory events for Mary and Lazare John’s 60th Wedding Anniversary, 1989.

Introduction: Party held in an auditorium. Head table in front of a curtained stage, decorated with a blue tablecloth. Streamers and pink, white and blue balloons provide a backdrop for the head table. Silver paper bells decorate the front of the table with a larger “60” sign on the front centre of the tablecloth. There is a large wedding cake situated between Lazare and Mary on the centre of the head table. Pink and white balloons and streamers decorate the walls of the hall.

The party begins with a prayer – the focus is on the head table. Guests seated at long tables are passing along the food, eating and talking. The camera pans in and out to the head table and surveys guests.

Mary and Lazare’s daughter, Winnie, stands behind the head table and addresses the guests. She tells a joke about her parents and then goes to sit down.

An unidentified man approaches the head table and pours drinks for those seated there.

Edward John approaches the head table and shakes both Lazare’s and Mary’s hands. He then talks with them and other guests at the head table for quite awhile.

Young people approach the head table and take photographs of the anniversary couple.

An elderly woman speaks briefly to Mary and Lazare from behind the table. Another woman in a wheelchair speaks to Mary and other guests at the head table.

Edward John (EJ) – EJ introduces himself as the MC and speaks at back of head table to the guests. He asks for round of applause for Lazare and Mary for being able to live with each other or 60yrs. The day they were married, they had no wedding cake, so the cake on the table is to make up for that. 60 years ago, Lazare never said “I do” at the ceremony and Mary is still waiting. He introduces their 9 children from their marriage included the 2 that died: Helen, who was active in Stoney Creek affairs, tribal council and Indian Homemakers Assoc. of BC and Charles (don’t know too much about him). He then introduces the children still remaining: Winnie, Bernice, Florence, Ernie, Gordon, Johnnie and Ray. The anniversary couple have 32 grandchildren, and 25 great-granchildren: many children, grandchildren, great grandchildren. Before asking couple to cut their cake, he introduces speakers. First up is Aileen Kimble (AK) from Vanderhoof.

AK: Friends with the couple for many years, happy anniversary Lazare and Mary.

EJ: No set agenda for this event, just time to celebrate and spend time with the couple. There are 30 people from Sechelt (nieces and nephews) that came up for this event: Valerie and Ken, Randy and Lani, Audrey, Willard, Janice, Bradley and Leonora, Wayne, Rena and Earl, Clarke. (applause) EJ calls on Bridget Moran (BM) to speak.

BM: Told a story about Mary’s wedding day, and when she first came to Stoney Creek. She touches a bit upon Stoney Creek Woman.

David: Tells a story about trapping with Grandfather Lazare. He thanks everyone for coming.

Winnie: Thanks siblings and Dorothy MacIntyre for helping her decorate the “leaning tower of Stoney Creek”. Also thanks Adela and Nicholas George for decorating the wishing well.

EJ: Mary’s cousin from Prince Rupert George and Emily Bird recently celebrated their 50th (?) wedding anniversary. Long time friend is Selina John (SJ), elder to tribal council called to speak.

SJ: She is so happy to be sitting next to sister-in-law. Ever since they both married they worked together. Raising their children together, they were like one big family. Not one cross word between them in 60 years. They’ve been through a lot but one thing stands out – during the day they took care of family and if they had time they would hunt squirrel in the bush. One time they were hunting squirrel and they got lost and it took them forever to find their way home. They came home hungry, frozen and tired and met with husbands who were furious because they thought they had been chasing boys. She talks to young people about the example Mary and Lazare’s marriage should be to the whole community- 60 years they’ve been together. The young generation of today, each walks in their own direction. If you want to have a good life you have to work at it. Marriage is a contract. If you marry you have to work towards it. She’s very proud of her sister-in-law, many times SJ was down especially after her husband died and MJ pulls her up. She wishes Mary and Lazare many more anniversaries to come.

EJ: Calls Sophie Thomas (ST) to say a few words.

ST: Wishes the couple a happy 60th anniversary and many more. She worked together with Mary for the people on reserve. Since they started the fought for running water, now they have sewer.

EJ: Calls Veronica to say a few words.

Veronica: She very happy to be there- to see Mary on her 60th wedding anniversary. It isn’t easy. Mary has faith in the Lord. She didn’t forget her mother’s and grandmother’s words. You have to listen when an elder talks to you. People come to elders for advice and direction and spiritual words too. So it is nice to see Mary and Lazare reach their 60 years of marriage – this is a very holy thing. Holy matrimony is important to keep. She hopes the young generation will take an example from Mary. It is not good to divorce. Always pray. She thanks many people for coming. May the Good Lord look after you wherever you are.

EJ: There are a few more speakers, elders mostly. Mary Pius (MP) from Heightly (?)

MP: Her Aunty Mary and Uncle Lazare have done so much for the people of Stoney Creek. Mary was one of last midwives. She took the baby into world and would help nurse along the young mothers too. Now you have nurses, doctors, hospitals, but we still have to work just as hard to keep the young mothers going. The young generation is still here because of the hard work of Mary and Lazare. We thank them for all the hard work to keep the young ones going. They take care of those who are sick, and help supply Indian medicine. She hopes the good Lord will reward her aunt and uncle and wishes them the best from the Holy Spirit. She wishes good luck to her Aunty Mary and Uncle Lazare.

EJ: There are a couple more speakers, then cutting of the cake, then a 60th anniversary waltz and some entertainment. EJ calls Justa Monk (JM), who has worked with Mary at tribal level carrying on business through the whole tribal area, and who has been deputy chief, past tribal council president and chairman.

JM: In the short time he has known the couple, he has learned many things in his culture and about society today. He is honoured to be there sharing their food. He talks about Lazare’s speaking in church. What they have done in Stoney Creek has spread to other reserves like his. He wishes them well.

EJ: When the couple married 60 years ago, they didn’t have any money. They borrowed $25 from his brother. Lazare went to work and Mary worked too. Lazare worked at a railway tie camp. EJ calls on Evelyn Louie (EL) to speak.

EL: She’s really happy for the couple. She thanks them very much for everything.

EJ: Introduces Ellen Lasert from Burns Lake

EL: She is an apprentice under Mary John. Mary has been an inspiration to her and she brings greetings from people in Burns Lake and Chief (?) Charlie.

[Winnie speaks to Edward John]

EJ: Calls on Cecile Patrick to speak.

CP: She wishes her uncle and auntie a happy anniversary from their family. Thanks everyone for the food and effort in preparing food. She is the second eldest daughter of Lazare’s sister.

EJ: Comments: Lazare and Mary’s doors in Stoney Creek are always open. Every time you visit you are always treated with respect and made to feel at home. He has these wonderful memories of this couple. She always has her smokehouse and her wood fire going all the time. She always has tea ready. He asks Lazare and Mary to cut the cake for the 60th wedding anniversary.

[Lazare and Mary pose with a knife ready to cut the cake. Guests rise to take photographs. Then Mary rises again and tries to remove the cake topper and cut the cake for her guests but it doesn’t cut easily. They are finally told there is already cake for the guests in the kitchen.]

EJ: Calls on Bob Holmes (on piano?) and Jen Hoffner (on accordion) to come to the front.

The recording breaks and screen goes black for a second

Picture resumes and Lazare and Mary are seen doing the anniversary waltz. They dance for a bit and then sit down, but another gentleman takes Mary up front again to continue dancing (a son?).

EJ: Announces the entertainment: the young dancers from Stoney Creek and the PG dancers. He calls dancers to the floor; while waiting he tells a story about a blind snake and a blind rabbit.

Drummers gather and begin to play and sing. Stoney Creek dancers (children of all ages) come to the centre of the dance floor to perform. Second dance is called the “Beaver Dance”. The third dance is called the “ -inaudible- Dance”. The fourth dance is called the “Four Winds Dance”.

Tape ends.

File consists of a letter from Jean Y. Wright, Managing Editor for Chatelaine magazine to Bridget Moran re: letter of rejection for manuscript on childhood memories (July 21, 1976); including typed manuscript.

File consists of the manuscript of A Little Rebellion by Bridget Moran.

File consists of the original manuscript with some yet to be included edits.

File consists of the manuscript of "Judgement at Stoney Creek" (101 pages).

File consists of "Manner of Life in Ireland" by Bridget Drugan, Feb.5, 1941 (original handwritten story and photocopy).

File consists of a copy of fax sent to Kent Patenaude from Anja Brown re: Bella Bella meeting with Legal Services (Sept. 14, 1998); a fax copy of LSS News featuring article on Bridget Moran (Sept. 24, 1998); a fax of email sent to Kent Patenaude by Dennis Morgan re: Alert Bay meeting (October 6, 1998); a memo to Notes on File from Kent Patenaude re: Community Consultation - Alert Bay (Oct. 7, 1998); and the Native Community Law Office Association of B.C. Newsletter (August, 1998, Vol. 1, Issue 1) including: draft copy of letter written by Bridget Moran to the Editor (Sept. 25, 1998).

File consists of:

• Thank you cards to Bridget from various offices
• Letter from Bridget Moran to Pindar [?] re: closure of LSS Langley office (Sept. 19, 1997)
• Official appointment announcements from Mike Harcourt (1995) and Glen Clark (1997) recognizing Bridget's appointment as a director of the Legal Services Society
• Copy of "Endorsement #8: Specific Claim Exclusion" issued to the Legal Services Society by American Home Assurance Company (March 1, 1997)
• Letter to Bridget Moran from Ujjal Dosanjh, Attorney General of B.C. appointing her to the position of Director of the Legal Services Society of British Columbia.
• Copy of Order of the Lieutenant Governor in Council (June 11, 1997).

File consists of:

• Correspondence between Harry Rankin and Bridget Moran re: her suspension (1964-66)
• Copies of correspondence from W.B. Milner to Harry Rankin (1967)
• Copies of correspondence between the Civil Service Commission and Harry Rankin re: Bridget Moran (1964-1965)
• Handwritten copies of correspondence between Bridget Moran and W.H. Dallomore (?) re: potential employment (June 21, 1965)
• Copy of Bridget Moran's Oath of Allegiance; Office and Revenue to the Government of the Province of British Columbia (Dec. 20, 1951)
• Copies of correspondence between the Civil Service Commission and Bridget Moran (1965)*Copy of letter to Hon. P.A. Gaglardi from Bridget Moran (Feb. 17, 1968)
• Newspaper clippings from the following newspapers: the Sun; The Vancouver Sun;
• Copies of correspondence between Harry Rankin and the Social Welfare Department (1964)
• Draft version of Bridget's application to the Civil Service Commission calling for a review of her suspension.
• Letter from E.R. Rickinson, Deputy Minister of Social Welfare to Bridget Moran, (Jun 15, 1965)
• Copies of correspondence from Bridget Moran to W.B. Milner (1966).

File consists of:

• Author Reading and Autograph Session with Bridget Moran at the Nechako Branch of the Prince George Public Library.
• Author reading by Bridget Moran at the Dease Lake Library (Oct. 16, 1995)
• Hillbilly Literary Nite presented by Culculz Lake Literary Club and featuring reading by Bridget Moran
• Author reading by Bridget Moran at the Valemount Public Library (May 10, 1996)
• Author reading by Bridget Moran at the Tillacum Library
• "Bestsellers" (Jan. 21, 1998) ; [Bestseller's list for non-fiction] The Vancouver Sun (June 17, 1998).

File consists of:

• Everywomans Books 20th Birthday Party Celebration, 1975-1995 featuring an advertisement for a reading Bridget Moran
• "Together again..." by Martha Perkins, 2 pages (Haliburton County Echo, June 13, 1995)
• "History: Manslaughter, then Justa for All" (B.C. Bookworld, Spring 1995).

Audio recording is the continuation of an interview by Bridget Moran with Ken Rutherford, educator and former municipal politician of Swift Current, Saskatchewan and later ran for the NDP in Fort George, BC. Rutherford discusses his involvement in politics in Saskatchewan, and subsequent move to Prince George, BC and interest in politics in BC.

Audiocassette Summary

• Recalls the 1953 federal election when he ran unsuccessfully as CCF member for Swift Current, Saskatchewan
• After election decided to move to Vancouver; started looking for jobs and took teaching job in Prince George, BC
• Describes living conditions; living in cabin in Fort George and their early neighbors (Milners (sp?) in Prince George c.1950s
• Recalls running in BC elections 3 times unsuccessful
• Discusses MLA Ray Williston and the Wenner-Gren election issue
• Discusses his thoughts on the current NDP; regarding the issue of Senate abolishment and what he sees as ‘undemocratic policies’

File consists of newspaper clippings:

• "Surrender" (The Georgia Straight, July 19-26)
• "The Kemano deal: scientists, salmon sacrificed" (The Watershed, Nov. 1993)
• "Carrier-Sekani people speak for the fish" (The Watershed, Nov. 1993)
• "Alcan bid rejected by Court"(Canadian Press, Sept. 26, 1994)
• "Kemano hearings concluded" (The Democrat, Autumn, 1994)
• "What's up with Kemano II" (The Democrat, Spring, 1994)
• "How Kemano deal came to happen" (The Prince George Citizen, Aug. 13, 1994)
• "Memos reveal Kemano project conflicts ; editorial comments" (The Prince George Citizen, Oct. 14, 1994)
• "Kemano battle shifts to Ottawa" (The Prince George Citizen, Dec. 9, 1992)
• "Scientists condemn Kemano deal" (The Prince George Citizen, May 27, 1994)
• "North must stick together to protect river" (The Prince George Citizen, Feb. 6, 1993)
• "Controversy clouds start of hearings" (The Prince George Citizen, Nove. 9, 1993)
• "Alcan explains contract" (The Prince George Citizen, July 15, 1994)
• "Fisheries chief stays out of Kemano controversy" (The Prince George Citizen, April 7, 1994)
• "Kemano hearings reconvene in city" (The Prince George Citizen, July 19, 1994)
• "Exemption on Kemano ruled illegal" (The Vancouver Sun, May 25, 1993)
• "Kemano opponents get federal cash" ((The Prince George Citizen, March 31, 1994)
• "Ottawa joins Kemano project inquiry" ((The Prince George Citizen)
• "Your Opinion" ((The Prince George Citizen, Oct. 28, 1993)
• "Kemano hearings almost at an end" (The Prince George Citizen, July 23, 1994)
• "Siddon proud of Kemano deal" (The Prince George Citizen, July 22, 1994)
• "Former fisheries minister testifies" (The Prince George Citizen, July 21, 1994)
• "Social, economic costs of Kemano described here" (The Prince George Citizen, July 20, 1994)
• "Siddon anticipated" (The Prince George Citizen, July 16, 1994)
• Editorial comment on the Kemano project by Carolyn Linden (The Prince George Citizen, July 16, 1994)
• "Pulp mill's effects debated" (The Prince George Citizen, July 13, 1994)
• "Farming issues raised at Kemano hearing" and "Float plane operators worried about project" (The Prince George Citizen, July 12, 1994)
• "Vanderhoof wary about Alcan plan" (The Prince George Citizen, July 11, 1994)
• "Natives seek..." (The Prince George Citizen, June 4, 1994)
• "Where will the power from Kemano..." (The Prince George Citizen, June 11, 1994)
• "Scientists testify at inquiry" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Threat to Tweedsmuir Park predicted"
• "Protesters disrupt inquiry" (The Prince George Citizen, June 24, 1994)
• "Power struggle" (The Weekend Sun, April 23, 1994)
• "Council rates Nechako 'most endangered river'" and "Alcan finds no evidence of PCB contamination" (Lakes District News, May 18, 1994)
• "Siddon wanted at hearings" (The Prince George Citizen, May 20, 1994)
• "Weed growth fears expressed" (The Prince George Citizen, July 8, 1994)
• "Chemical threat to river feared" (The Prince George Citizen, April 14, 1994)
• Newspaper advertisement: "Five things you should know about Kemano Completion" (The Weekend Sun, April 23, 1994)
• "Retired scientist says he was told to support gov't" (The Prince George Citizen, May 12, 1994)
• "Kemano opponents rifle paper" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Court rejects Kemano challenge" (The Prince George Citizen, Feb. 4, 1993)
• "Kemano probe called 'a sham'" (The Prince George Citizen, April 14, 1994)
• "Special Kemano 'deals' denied" (The Prince George Citizen, July 15, 1994)
• "Nechako warning 'ignored' in '86" (The Prince George Citizen, May 4, 1994)
• "Scientists say deal bad" (The Prince George Citizen, May 7, 1994)
• "Kemano in jeopardy, gov't hints" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Kemano inquiry promise sought" (The Prince George Citizen, July 14, 1994)
• "Kemano fight pledged" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Kemano report 'shocks' natives" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Single moms worst off"
• "Kemano won't be shut down" (The Prince George Citizen, Jan. 20, 1993)
• "Your Opinion" (The Prince George Citizen, Nov. 25, 1992)
• "Kemano queries keep group busy" (The Prince George Citizen, March 25, 1993)
• "Kemano project battle promised" (The Prince George Citizen, Feb. 5, 1993)
• "Indians get flooding settlement" (The Prince George Citizen, March 17, 1993)
• "A move to damn cabinet action in dam controversy" (Vancouver Sun, Jun 24, 1993)
• "Your Opinion" (The Prince George Citizen, April 7, 1993)
• "Fort Fraser folk just let it all hang out" (The Prince George Citizen, April 10, 1993)
• "Kemano answers demanded" (The Prince George Citizen, April 5, 1993)
• "Nechako 'worth more than a few lousy jobs'" (The Prince George Citizen)
• "Indians gather to reclaim heritage" (The Prince George Citizen, July 7, 1993)
• "Kemano hearings hit the road" (The Prince George Citizen, July 25, 1994)
• "Stand rapped" (The Prince George Citizen, Jan. 26, 1992)
• "Kemano-gov't conflict claimed" (The Prince George Citizen, April 11, 1994)
• "Natives could join inquiry" (The Prince George Citizen, Jan. 24, 1994)
• "Gov't kills Kemano project" (The Prince George Citizen, Jan. 23, 1995)
• "The Kemano decision" (The Prince George Citizen, Jan. 24, 1995)
• "Alcan breaks silence: Kemano decision criticized" and "Long, tiring battle over for Monk" (Prince George This Week, Jan. 29, 1995)

File also includes:

• River Views: Newsletter of the Allied Rivers Commission, vol.1, issue 2 (May. 1992) including Allied Rivers Commission "Policies and Objectives" (July 10, 1991) and "Nechako River winter flow comparison"
• River Views: Newsletter of the Allied Rivers Commission, vol.3, issue 1 (Nov. 1993)
• Blueprint: "Tanizul Timber Ltd. T.F.L 42, updated to 93 / 07
• Brian Gardiner, M.P. Campaign '93 Newsletter
• Gardiner Report - Update by Brian Gardiner, MP re: Fed must act on Kemano.
• Handwritten note by Bridget Moran re: Kemano project.
• Newsletter for the Nechacko Environmental Coalition, Edition 1:14 (Mar/April 1993)
• River Views: Newsletter of the Allied Rivers Commission, vol.2, issue 2 (March 1993)
• Information sheet re: public review of Kemano completion project.

File consists of:

• Press release: "Justa tells a compelling story: B.C. author's fourth book a must read" (Dec. 5, 1994)
• Copy of newspaper clipping: "Fascinating life, times of Justa Monk" (Prince George Citizen, Feb. 2, 1995)
• Copy of newspaper clipping: "Murder led to election as tribal leader" (Vancouver Courier, Dec. 28, 1984)
• Copy of newspaper clipping: "Justa: A Review" (Central Interior NDP News)
• Transcript of "Harkins! Bob Harkins Comment" re: Justa publication (Monarch Broadcasting, Nov. 21, 1994)
• Manuscript: "Teresa" - Bridget Moran (writer)
• "Justa: the life and work of a first nations leader" Chapter Summary
• P.105-120, Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk.
• P.121 - 133, Interview transcriptions between Theresa and Bridget Moran (recorded March 25, 1993; transcribed April 9, 1993).
• Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk re: ancestors & family
• Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk re: life in Portage.
• Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk re: working before trouble
• Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk re: before road (tape 6)
• Interview transcriptions between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk re: Lejac
• Handwritten notes
• Handwritten transcript of interview with Adelle (Oct. 6, 1993)
• Annotated drafts of Chapter 21
• Handwritten notes
• Copies of newspaper clippings re: Justa Monk's trial: "Accused weeps during testimony"; "Murder trial held in Supreme Court"; "Drinking preceded death"; "Stabbing victim: always fighting"; "Defence delivered in murder trial"; "Justa Monk given two years in jail"
• Handwritten notes.

File consists of annotated transcript of interviews between Bridget Moran and Justa Monk.

File consists of:

• "Past mistakes recorded in new book" (Vancouver Sun, May 8, 1995)
• "Murder led to election as tribal leader: social worker recorded story" (Vancouver Courier, Dec. 28, 1984)
• Transcript of "Harkins! Bob Harkins Comment" re: Justa publication (Monarch Broadcasting, Nov. 21, 1994)
• "Fascinating life, times of Justa Monk" (The Prince George Citizen, Feb. 2, 1995)
• "Justa: A Review" (Central Interior NDP News)
• "Blanket coverage" (B.C. Bookworld, spring 1995)
• "Manslaughter, then Justa for all" and "Blanket coverage" (B.C. Bookworld, spring 1995)
• Fax from Laura Boyd, Northwood Pulp & Timber to Justa Monk (and Bridget Moran?) re: names and positions of executive staff at Northwood (Nov. 14, 1994).

File consists of a videocassette (VHS) recording of Justa Monk giving a talk to a UNBC Carrier Culture Course (First Nations Studies 163) on October 24, 1995.

Videocassette Summary

Context: Justa Monk speaks to students in the UNBC Carrier Culture Course (First Nations Studies 163)

Introduction: Justa Monk is seated at a table situated at the front of a lecture theatre (?) speaking in a lecture style that ended in a question-answer format with several students in the FNS 163 class. The videotaping does not commence from the beginning of the lecture as there is no introduction to Justa Monk by the instructor and there is no immediate indication as to who the instructor is.

Justa wrote his book because his elders requested him to, and his people requested him to share what he went through and what alcohol had done to him. So he thought about it. Throughout his leadership, many people talked with him about their alcohol problem and how they couldn’t get out of the trench they were in. He wrote the book to tell them that ‘yes’, they can get out of the trench and that ‘yes’, they can change. Other reasons why he wrote his book: when his people get into trouble, they often classify themselves as a ‘nobody’ – when they read his book, they see the trouble he went through: first, at young age, when he started drinking after he left residential school. Then as he grew, it got to point where he couldn’t control his drinking- where he was blacking out and didn’t remember why he was in jail. When he got drunk he was a fighter, even though he was small. He didn’t care. He would work everyday and fight every weekend. Growing up on reservation, there is no choice as to future and not much to do so many turn to booze. Every time a friend or relative had alcohol they would share it with their next closest friend or relative. In his family, his brother came over to the house to invite him to drink over-proof rum with him. He blacked out, killed his brother and spent time in jail. He was very suicidal. He didn’t want to live after what he did. His lawyer talked to him. Upon his release he thought he lost the respect and love of his family and his community. It surprised him that he was forgiven and that he had a future in his life. It was hard. It still bothers him after 29 years.

When he came back to his community the elders came to talk to him about his leadership qualities. He didn’t know what they were talking about. The elders told him that in past he made mistakes, but that he can iron out his mistakes and show his leadership and that’s what happened. He became band manager, then band manager and chief,and then chief and so forth. That is why he wrote that book.

‘Yes’, he listened to his elders, ‘yes’, he was a drunk, ‘yes' he made a mistake because of alcohol. He came out of his trench and became a leader. There is hope to change if there is a wish to change.

He also wrote his book because no one in his territory, except Mary John, had been able to share with non-Indians the way of life they lived - off the land. He grew up on an isolated reserve, and lived off the land. He didn’t understand English until he went to [Lejac] residential school. It’s really hard to make people understand today, what First Nations people were like in his day. In his family there were 11 of them. His father made something like 50 cents a day to support them all - it was really hard.

When Justa went to residential school, he didn’t know how to speak or understand English. His parents didn’t go to school at all. His Dad knew some English because he worked off reserve at a lodge. On his first day of residential school, he asked his brother why they were taking away his clothes. A priest smacked him and told him ‘he was not to use that language around here’. Residential school has done some harm, a lot of harm, to his people. On the other hand, he cannot totally criticize these schools as they disciplined some people – many people in leadership positions today grew up in residential school. Residential schools were told by the government to make assimilate the children and make a white person out of a brown person. He thinks they went about it the wrong way. That is where the frustrations of First Nations people come. You see and hear about abuse. His people are suffering from the consequences of the stupidity in the way they tried to make his people assimilate. Because of that, there is abuse going on amongst his people. Aside from that, he one of lucky ones to go home and retain language and culture: now he can live in 2 worlds – the world of the white man and the Indian world.

Culture-wise they were taught to respect. Mom was boss in house. If they didn’t do what mom said, dad would punish them but his parents wouldn’t lay a hand on the children. They taught children how to respect the land, and other people. They taught him how to use the land. Sophie Thomas, elder who does Indian medicine in Stoney Creek lives the belief that every time you take something from land you replace it with something. When Sophie takes things for Indian medicine she replaces it with tobacco.

He wonders if his people will ever have the opportunity again to hunt and fish anywhere they want. He doesn’t think so. When people started warring about the land there was a lot of bloodshed in the early 1900s before the Europeans came. His people worried that there were too many dead amongst the Indian people, and they had to do something about it. In 1921 they came up with the idea of potlatch as they needed peace amongst the people as there was too much bloodshed. To him ‘potlach’ means respect, love and sharing. If you’ve done something to wrong your neighbour instead of fighting, clans would call a potlatch right then and invite all. They would put the fighters in the centre and each were told no more fighting. This still goes on. There is also a potlatch for death of people. There are four clans in a potlatch: caribou, beaver, frog and bear (?)

A long time ago First Nations people fought for land but they had respect for land; that is why they had to protect the land and kill one another for it. If someone trespassed without permission, they could die. People talk about self-government today. The young generation of his people didn’t even know there was self-government amongst their own people, that they controlled their own people. They had no government programs, they were living off the land and controlling their own people. They used to have Watchmen, who looked after the community. The 1 and only person they had to answer to was the hereditary person, who overlooked the territory, their lands. So when someone did something they weren’t supposed to do, that person went in front of the hereditary person to receive a punishment. He was taught that boys weren’t even allowed to kiss a girl, without proving to her family that they were a good hunter and provider. If they did, they would be held up to all and embarrassed. They might be beaten if they still didn’t understand their punishment. They may also have been banished. No one would protect this person, not even their immediate family as everyone knew that the person did wrong and was receiving the correct punishment. His people had their own controls and justice system. Self-government - if you lived in late 1800s / early 1900s – was very different from how it is referred to nowadays. He wonders if leadership and his people really know what they are talking about when talking about self- government.

Land claims and the treaty process – he was told by his elders not to say land “claims” but rather the land “question”. Many people are scared about the land question. Different political parties say different things and people are getting really confused. The whole land question is referring to the fishing, hunting, burial, berry picking, fishing habitats: the grounds where his people used to make their living off the land – this is what the elders are talking about and want to protect. The clans are talking about traditional territories. Many people lived off the land until 1970, therefore their people are still living off the land. There are many traditional territories still out there.

He considers himself an inmate of Canada – a jail bird. When the Hudson’s Bay Co. first started, the government started to make reservations. They gave so many acres to First Nations people as ‘reserves’ and they put a number to each reserve. As they put people onto the reserves, they also ‘branded’ them with band numbers and put ‘guards’ over them – aka the “DIA”. His people had no input. They were given programs and free education etc and were now labeled by non-natives as bums who pay no tax and receive free programs – but they had no input.

You look at the Indian Act you can see that land doesn’t belong to his people. Even the reserve isn’t theirs. They don’t own anything, yet they are known as the First Nations, the First Peoples. They live in that little jailhouse. They receive their free programs and some are very beneficial to his people, but he wishes they had a say. Land claims are not dangerous. Justice must be cleared up. Once this is done there will be a big opportunity for their future children to have a better life. They must get this uncertainty out of the way. That’s what he’s trying to do. He believes they need a chance to have their say regarding things that are happening around them. To be able respect the culture they are from, and to recognize who they are they must clear the air. There is a lot of frustration out there, especially within the younger generation. He has been taught to have patience and respect. In the early ‘30s in Fort St. James, the dirty ‘30s, his dad taught him to share what provisions they had. People still thank Justa for that kindness of his parents. He believes starvation is coming due to dwindling resources and too many people. He says everyone must set aside their differences re: the land question and see what can be done to change it for the betterment of the children. If the government would deal with the land question openly and in fairness, it would be resolved. But they want to lie about things. You need to treat everyone fair. That is the way he sees the treaty process. He wants to get rid of the Indian Act and draft something that will be fair to everybody.

Kemano II (KII) is something no one follows up on anymore. In 1989 when he was general band manager, he went to court in Vancouver with many elders. The court threw them out. He fought KII so hard because he knew that when you kill the river (the Nechako), you kill all that is in it. When a river dies there is no more salmon. If the Nechako died, the Stewart River would die and then Stewart Lake would die too. And if the Nechako was gone the Fraser Rriver would be drained down. KII just looked at reversing the Nechako but it didn’t look at the affect it would have on other waterways. That’s why he fought so hard. Justa’s mandates a chief: 1) to get land claims on the table again; 2) to kill KII; 3) to get rid of the DIA office in PG; 4) to get education for their people. He fought KII not because they didn’t like Alcan – it was their way of life that was going down. There is not only salmon in the Nechako – there are many species which were feeding his people. He fought KII legally through funds from his people -
$1.3million. He is proud they made the decision not to go along with the project. This topic he touches upon briefly in his book.

[Note: It is very difficult to hear many of the students’ questions. Most questions as they are identified below are summaries of what was believed to have been said]

Q: How can he belong to 2 clans?
Justa: He belonged to mother’s frog clan when he was growing up. Then one day the caribou clan asked him to go out and invite people to their potlatch. During this potlatch he was asked to sit in middle between clans. The spokesperson for caribou clan said they were going to “buy” Justa Monk. One of the caribou elders said Justa’s father is a caribou and so they want him as a caribou and take him away from his mother’s frog clan. His dad was very happy about this, but his mother was upset. The beaver clan then planned a potlatch and asked him to invite people to their potlatch, and again he was asked to sit in the middle as they wanted to buy the other half of him. So he is also part of the beaver clan. He was bought out of respect due to his leadership qualities. He used to help his elders a lot ever since he was young and that is why his leadership was recognized.

Q: Where are your kids, and what clan are they?
Justa: They are at home. The kids belong to his wife’s clan – Caribou. He adopted 2 children: a daughter and a son.

Q: You want to look ahead, what do you want to bring with you?
Justa: You can’t turn back the clock and live off the land again. Some people don’t even understand their own language. To live off land, and do potlatch all the time – you can’t do it. These cultural events are disappearing. He wants to make his culture and the white culture work together in order to make it work for his young people. With technology the way it keeps going, his people have to get more education.
There is no chance for them to go back. With clear cutting, his people can’t even trap anymore. So it is better to set it up, so that Canadian and Indian culture can work together.

Q: How do you see the land question getting settled?
Justa: In traditional territories, there are only some places we can hunt for bear and dear. They hang out between willow and poplar trees. When logging we have to leave something for animals. If they don’t have shelter they won’t last long. In traditional territories, we need to leave those places alone so the animals can survive. We must all have a say in how the land can be used properly – it needs to be a join venture.

Q: If land claims are settled, people in the DIA would lose their jobs. Maybe this is why they are dragging their feet?
Justa: If land claims were settled, yes, 40-50,000 people might lose their jobs. The government would save a lot of money.

Q: How would you model your people’s government?
Justa: Don’t want to repeat something already done. For their money, they would chose the best way for them.

Q: re: logging [inaudible]
Justa: They are not going to clear cut. Selective logging has worked in past. The government is going to run into trouble by clear cutting. At Nakalak Lodge, if you look at both sides of hill in summer, you wouldn’t know it’s been logged because it was selective logged. You can’t even see skid roads. If it (destructive logging practice) keeps going the way it is now, there is going to be winds that are going to be damaging to us.

Q: re: spiritual practice as it relates to logging
Justa: There are certain areas in their territory where spiritual things happen and so these areas wouldn’t ever be touched. His elders would look at the territory and identify which areas are to be protected. You must involve grass roots people in the selection process. We don’t have medicine men and women they way the used to – they no longer exist.

Q: re: difference between statistics released by the government and those produced by Justa in his book. Justa: Don’t listen to what the government has to say. His people are not dummies, they just have nothing to do and are sitting around on reservation.

Q: Do you pay other people to build housing on reserve?
Justa: We build our own houses and have our own electricians. Once the land question is settled he thinks a lot of joint ventures can be developed that will get his people off welfare.

Q: When your traditional areas are under the administration of his own people, would there be restricted access to these areas by non Indian people?
Justa: He didn’t think so. We would need to develop how to use the land and how to share it. But there would have to be some controls over the land somehow so it wasn’t abused.

Q: There must still be a lot of hunting and trapping even if a person can’t live off land anymore
Justa: Yes, many people are still hunting and trapping.

Q: How do you think social problems for your people can be fixed?
Justa: On reservations or in the city we need to start teaching our children way of life their elders grew up with. Right now they have TV, drugs and alcohol and that is distracting them. His people have to make time for the children. He regrets bringing TV to reserve when he was band manager.

Q: Are there any female band leaders?
Justa: Yes. Like the BC Indian Chief – Wendy Grant, he nominated her. A long time ago no there were no female band leasers as the women were at home with their children. Men were more up front about leadership.

Q: It seems that the native community can heal itself. Non-native communities spend a lot of time trying to heal native community but from his readings he thinks native communities can heal itself.
Justa: Settling the land base is required. When he was band manager, he made 5 emergency trips- suicide related- in one day; so he believes healing and pride will come back when the land base is settled.

Q: In the Artic, people control hunting and fishing via co-ops.
Justa: His people control their own hunting by season. No one is trigger happy. No one shoots just to shoot.

Justa: He is currently working with Northwood to educate First Nations peoples and teach them about Northwood sawmills etc. He is also finding out trapping takes place so Northwood doesn’t log there.

[Extensive question/answer period ensues whereby logging and wood processing techniques, ventures and technology on reserve and off are discussed.]

Justa: He is now taking a rest from leadership as he had done it for 25 years. Now he is starting to understand the people around him as he was being brainwashed by government after having to deal with them for so many years.

The instructor thanks Justa and gathers up her class to take them to the First Nations Centre.

Tape ends.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary
SIDE 1
00:04 Moran asks Justa when and where he was born. In Fort St. James, Nov. 20, 1942 in his father’s home. Moran asks about Justa’s mother’s family and her relationship to Eddie John. His mother had a big family, 2-3 sisters, and quite a few brothers. She was from Portage and his dad was from Babine Lake. Both ended up in Tachie after meeting in Fort St. James and marrying in 1924. Their marriage was arranged: a long time ago that is how marriages were made. His parents were born in 1900 and married in 1924. His mother was married before and had one child but this first husband died. The child’s last name was Maurice. After getting married, his parents moved to Portage to work on his father’s farm acreage outside the reserve. When Justa went to Lejac in ’54, he was accused of being non-status by Dept. of Indian Affairs and tried to kick him and his brother out of Lejac because this farm was off reserve. In 1954 the Monks moved back to Tachie after all his older brothers and sisters got married in Tachie.

4:35 His parents lived away from Tachie for about 30 years. They moved back to Tachie after working in Fort St. James, Douglas Lodge and Nakalak Lodge on Stewart Lake. Bridget wondered who owned the lodge back then? Justa says it was owned by Harry McConnachie. Justa’s father worked at this lodge as a guide.

5:03 Justa was the baby of a family of 11. Justa was born in 1942, when his mother was 42. His mother was born Feb. 18, 1900, his Dad May 15, 1900: so they were both about same age. They were married 67 years. His Mom died March 17, 1992. She was still sewing slippers at age 92. Bridget Moran talks about taping Granny Seymour as part of her social work when she was 111-112 years old, and how Granny had sewn Bridget a tablecloth.

6:30 Justa stayed at Lejac for 4 years. He couldn’t read, or write or speak English when he first started school. When he first arrived he had to surrender his home clothes and asked his brother, in his own language, why they were taking his clothes. A priest, Father Clanahan hit him on the ear and told him not to use that language here. He never forgot that day. He stayed from ’52 to ’57 and left in September 1957. They didn’t want to let him go because he was one of the best hockey players at Lejac. He took off into bush and went to his auntie’s place. They chased him for 2 weeks steady. He left because he was sick and tired of 2 things: working all the time on the farm and not learning anything in school; and second, praying 10-20 times a day. The schoolchildren changed clothes on Sundays, into Sunday clothes: a sweater and a pair of pants to go to church. He has nothing against religion, he is a practicing Catholic, but he was made to pray too often at Lejac. One thing he found with Lejac, was that they taught him what was right and wrong – they disciplined the children. Lejac did discipline people, but they didn’t totally punish them (with physical force). He worked at Lejac after he quit school with Adrian Johnnie. They would work there for 3 weeks then return home for 5 weeks. This job didn’t provide high wages but it was work and he had money.

10:18 When Justa left Lejac, he worked at a mill. He was 14 and underage, so his brothers signed for him so he could work. When he left Lejac in 1957, his father told him to go back but he didn’t want to. Justa had RCMP officers after him but with his brothers’ help he kept hiding. When his dad knew Justa wasn’t going to return to school he told him that if he was man enough to quit school, he was man enough to be on your own and start work. So his parents moved back up to North Arm to the lodge, and left Justa in the Fort. He was underage, and couldn’t get a job, until his brothers Teddy and John signed a consent form for him to work in a mill. He worked in the mill for 7 years from ’57 to ‘63. From ‘63 on, he worked with his dad at Nakalak Lodge for another 7 years. He worked a lot around white society and then into the Indian nations.

11:45 Justa talks about his trouble with the law. In 1967 his brother John came over and asked him to come and drink with him. His dad told him twice not to go but Justa didn’t listen. They were drinking rum together and the last thing he remembered was playing record player on the table. Later that night, the cops came and picked him up. He asked them why they were picking him up. The cops asked him if he knew what had happened. He said he didn’t know what they were talking about. They then told him he had stabbed his brother. He didn’t believe them. They had to get one of his sisters to come and explain it to him. That was in ’67, he was about 20 years old. He took it rough. He did time for 6 months or so in Prince George. He wanted to commit suicide but had a 24-hr guard placed on him. The prison also had his lawyer and priest to come and talk to him. When he was released, he went home and his family accepted him back but he still felt awkward and had every intention of killing himself.

14:07 He went back to jail. He was told to stay away from the hotel. His friend went into this hotel, but Justa stayed outside about 50-60 feet away. A cop came by and told him he wasn’t supposed to be near that place. He asked him what was ‘near’ and the cop said about 50ft. Justa told the cop that he wasn’t going in, but the cop told him he was violating his parole anyway. He didn’t argue with the cop. He went back with his lawyer in front of the judge. Because he didn’t go into the hotel, he didn’t get charged with violating his parole, but was told he had to leave Fort St. James so he moved up to Dawson Creek and went back to school.

14:47 He stayed 1½ years in Dawson Creek to do his upgrading. He didn’t know anyone there. At that time he got $34/month for incidentals like cigarettes: room and board must have been paid for separately. Nowadays kids get something like $2,000 for going to school. It ($34) wasn’t much in ‘67-‘69. In ‘69 he got a letter from his brother Teddy saying their parents wanted him home. Justa had a common-law wife at that time. She had moved up to Dawson Creek with her kids. She had kids from another relationship. Life wasn’t easy then. He couldn’t get any part-time work. He had no choice but to move home after the letter from his brother. His parents were getting old. It wasn’t an easy life he lived.

16:10 From ‘67 on it was awkward. He didn’t know how he coped. Sometimes he just wanted to be alone. After he moved back home, he got a cabin on Stewart Lake - one his dad used to own. His dad transferred it over to him. He’d stay up there and just think about things. He had a lot of good jobs offered when he was young. When he was guiding, he had a guy from California offer him a guiding job in California. This guy said he would send Justa home twice a year to see his family. He was single then but he rejected this offer. In ‘70 when worked at BC Rail, they wanted him to move to Williams Lake and Kamloops to be a crane operator. He rejected them too because he wanted to be with his parents.

17:26 On Jan. 2, 1971 the band hired him as maintenance man. In ‘72 when the chief and staff there quit, they asked him to be band manager. He said he didn’t have the knowledge. They came back to his house twice, on the third time Justa agreed to give it a try but gave them no guarantees that he would stay. He said he didn’t know how he’d be an office boy when he was more an outdoors person, but he gave it a try and since then he has never looked back. From there Justa went from band manager for 14-15 years, to chief and band manager at times. When his brother (?) resigned as chief, he stepped in as chief and band manager. That was the toughest year he ever had. He was on nerve pills and sleeping pills. Dr. Mooney said if he didn’t slow down he was going to die. On June 14, 1986 when he broke out in rash again from bad nerves, he asked the council to let him off for 6 months or so for a rest - they wouldn’t let him, so he quit. He stayed home July and August and had no intention of working anywhere. He was going to go to his cabin and draw UIC. But on August 16, Eddie called him and told him he had to be in Prince George by August 18 as the Carrier Sekani Membership Assembly passed a motion and wanted to hire him as their General Manager. His wife said it was up to him, but she also suggested that he should take a year off. But he decided it was his own people picking him and he didn’t want to refuse them. So they moved down to P.G. and he was General Manager from August 1986 to July 1988 when the Tachie band wanted him back up there. When he moved back up to Tachie he was given the position of Coordinator for Teasely Forest Products, the sawmill they were building on the reserve. They also looked at him as Vice-chief, which he worked at part time on a volunteer basis from 1988-89. In 1989 he became Vice-chief and in July 1990 he was elected Tribal Chief which again meant he had to move down to P.G. for 2.5 to 3 years without his family. He was living out of motels for about a year.

21:44 He married his wife in 1972. She had 6 or 7 children from the previous marriage. She was a widow. They were going together before that. In ‘67 she had his child. Her name before marriage was Theresa Austin. They only had 1 child together but they adopted 1 girl and 1 boy. The girl was Theresa’s grandchild after Theresa’s daughter was killed. They legally adopted her when she was a few weeks old. Then Justa’s niece had a boy in Kamloops and wanted to give the boy away. He wanted a boy badly so he took the child.

23:12 Justa speaks of one of his daughters who was, at the time of the interview, being assessed for placement into College Heights Secondary in Prince George. She was supposed to go into grade 10 but as there was a lot of difference between reserve school in Tachie and public school in Prince George, she had to go for testing.

23:53 As Chief, Justa had a three part mandate: to educate the public about land claims, to work on land claims, and to stop Kemano II. Public education on land claims was a priority and he spoke to many organizations. However, his main focus at that time was Kemano II as it was going to destroy their way of life. The previous chief had done nothing about it for two years. Justa hired lawyers and started going to court. His lawyers lost the first round at court, won the second, and lost the third and that’s where it stood at the time of the interview. Other administrative priorities included: education, drop outs within the CSTC area, housing, social problems (drugs and alcohol). There was not just one issue, but many.

26:23 He never thought he would be in politics. He thought originally that he wanted to be either an RCMP officer, or to join the army. He never thought he’d be a chief. He went to a recruiting office, one of his friends was accepted. His knee was weak from previous sports injuries so he was rejected as was another one of his friends.

27:54 Justa has been working since he was 14. He was 49 at the time of the interview – that’s 35 years of his life spent steadily at work - except for 1 year when he went to school in Dawson Creek. Justa said the last 22 years were where the excitement was. From ‘71 to the present he’d seen lots of changes. In some cases better, in others worse. He gives for example the guidelines of the Department [of Indian Affairs?]. When reading the guidelines regarding housing and education the system has gotten worse – it has gotten stricter. Construction is also too costly now – you can’t build economical housing anymore. Communication with the department, however, has improved. Housing and social problems on reserve are now worse – more drugs, alcohol and free money. Justa stresses that social assistance is going to damage his people if they don’t do anything about it. His way of thinking proposes an alternative funding arrangement so the band can change the way social assistance is distributed so that his people can’t get money for free. The council would be able to make their people do something for the community in exchange for this money. Fort Nak'azdli band is doing that. The administrator there has brought welfare recipients down from 90% to 10%.

32:02 Bridget mentions it is her birthday today (69). She then tells Justa that they will have to talk about what he thinks (re: how to write the book). Justa says he wants to recollect everything. Bridget also mentions the wealth of information in the many journals he has kept over the years.

33:02 His time at Lejac was exciting for him. He was a favourite pupil at Lejac, because of his sports agility.

33:24 Bridget asked him if he had had trouble with alcohol. He says yes, that was the reason he got into trouble. He would work 5 days a week, but on weekends he would party with his brothers and a few friends. His parents worried he wouldn’t make it due to his partying. He started drinking at Lejac with stolen mass wine. Eventually he came to a point in his life when he was Band Manger where he wasn’t taking his leadership seriously. He would bring a thermos filled with beer and 3 packs of cigarettes to the office just to get through the day. After one of the elders talked to him about his self destructive ways, he began to think about his life. That was in 1984-85. So he started slowing down. As well, once his adopted little boy had grown up enough to see him drinking, he had told him to quit, so then he really started slowing down. And lastly, after he became Tribal Chief he knew he had to change his ways so he could be a positive role model for the young people. Quitting drinking was tough though as there were times he just wanted to drink, like when young people in his band died.

36:41 Bridget said she’ll write an outline of his life for her publishers to see what they think and then they can decide from that. She had his phone number and promised not to give it out to anyone else as it is unlisted. He mentioned he was going to go out hunting but his wife was always home. Bridget said she probably won’t tackle this project until the New Year as she had a new book coming out: A Little Rebellion. They could then work out an arrangement: 50% – 50% on royalties and he would have final say on what would go into the book. She told him he has to be prepared to really tell everything.

38:12 Tape ends mid sentence.

SIDE 2

45:50 Interview with Justa; Mary John and Theresa Monk are there too

46:11 Bridget asks about Joe Hansen, Justa Hansen’s brother. Joe was at Camp 24 – a mill camp where people from Ft. St. James would go to work in the summer and live in the shacks. Justa spent a weekend at this camp taking care of Joe Hansen when he was very old and dying of TB. His mouth used to dry out so badly, Justa would use bear grease on the outside and inside of his mouth, and that’s when Joe told him that in the future when he gets married he was going to have kids and be a leader. He told Justa he helps people; and never to laugh at the poor, or crippled or blind, and that if anyone else was laughing to just walk away and not to laugh with them because they will suffer later on. This is what the elders advised him. Many issues the elders talked to him about are now happening and are guiding him in his leadership. Jim (?) Joseph told him the same thing on his death bed. He told him in the future he was going to be a leader for a long time after he dies. Justa was named after Justa Hansen who was his godfather, and Justa Hansen used to tell Justa how to help people and what to do out in the bush. His elders spent a lot of time with him and shared their knowledge and wisdom with him. Some of the predictions – people dying out of alcohol is now what he’s seeing. Back in 1970, late 60’s, he was told in the future he would see young people from here to Ft. St. James dying out from alcohol. He is seeing this now. One of the biggest opportunities he had in life was to hang around with his elders: beginning in 1971 when he started working for the band.

51:00 His used to hang out with his elders (he lists many) and cut wood for them and give it to them free. The elders were just like parents to him and he was welcome everywhere with his elders.

52:13 Bridget asks if Justa will become chief here. Justa says he doesn’t know and that the young people around here have different ideas and don’t know what true leadership is. He presumes he will become chief but he can’t predict anything. Theresa: young people don’t look at what is good and what is bad. Bridget: do you think there is any real challenge to your leadership? Justa: there are some young people, but they don’t have leadership experience. He is positive he is going to get in. He’s received phone calls from chiefs asking him to be chief to his people part-time and then to also be tribal council chief part-time. He says staff is very important in any leadership, good staff listen to grassroots people. Same with leadership, they must listen to the grassroots people. With a good set of staff you don’t worry about anything.

54:48 He wants to complete the Kemano II deal. He made a commitment. On that basis he’s confused as to where he wants to be, he has a week to finalize his position. He knows if he runs as tribal chief he will get in. Archie Patrick supports his leadership and thinks he was the only one to keep people together. He also thought Justa really should have been given time off when he had asked for it. Justa talks about the deaths in his family that had caused him to quit the tribal council when he did in May (‘92?) Justa believes with the right set of staff he could do it.

56:37 Bridget: She has heard from so many native people and elders that until there is healing for the residential school experience, the other social problems won’t be solved. Justa doesn’t believe this to be true. The social problems exist regardless. As of 1992 the younger generation has no discipline, no clear direction, it is hard to talk to them without them swearing back at you. He cannot blame Lejac – there was some good and some bad. You look around today at the guys in leadership and they were all from Lejac. The social problems, you measure it from the time we left Lejac the social problems weren’t there. There was no real alcohol problems- just a few of us, no suicide, not as many deaths as today. People have put it in their minds that Lejac is where the social problems started from. He wouldn’t use Lejac as an excuse. It isn’t just Lejac though, some residential schools may have been worse. He was there for 4 years and only got punished once for something he didn’t do.

1:00:06 The beginnings of solutions for social problems: substance abuse, violence, suicide start with elders, the parents and the youth themselves. If he becomes chief, there is going to be an elders council and a youth council and they are going to work together with the chief and councillors. That is the start. Together they will search for solutions. Elders to share what they went through. He has many elders that can do this - if he can get them out of bingo! He has the 5-6 youths too. He would take 2 youths who are into substance abuse, 2 from the school and 1 from an urban area and tell them to make a 1 year commitment to talk about social problems and listen to the elders and bring them to meetings and make them sit there and listen. They would then go back and share what they learned with their friends and other students.

1:04:08 Bridget: Speaks to and about Mary John’s work with her people in Stoney Creek to deal with alcoholism in her community. Mary dealt with it from family to family but got burnt out. Justa: that’s why you have to work with the councillors, you can’t just depend on the elders as it will burn them out. Mary: you have to work with the councillors. Mary and Justa talk about trouble in Stoney Creek with the Council, and how you have to listen to your elders. Eddie has also never used the elders. Change must come from elders - sharing of the past and the intention of the future. Chief and councillors must be right there too as they are the chosen leaders. Eddie John is current chief. Mary: Eddie just has title of chief but is never here. (not heard: ? is acting as chief) Justa: he’s not feeling well he just had cancer and is very tired still from the treatment.

1:07:56 The local school on reserve teaches Carrier culture – they teach language and potlatch. Justa was not sure if they were still doing it. When he was band manager they started it and they would ask him to come watch the little kids hold a little potlatch. He really enjoyed that. They’ve done a lot in regards to whole culture. He used to get money for elders to teach children how to do skins.

1:08:57 Justa receives a phone call and speaks Carrier. Bridget speaks to Theresa and Mary in background.

1:09:54 From 1967-69 Justa went back to school in Dawson Creek to upgrade but hasn’t been back since. He is more a self taught politician. He has learnt from reading. That’s why there is so much difference in leadership nowadays. You take a young person coming out of school or college and they think they come home to be chief and change the world overnight. He worked at the grassroots level first, he was maintenance man first, then band manager, then chief and then tribal chief. He started at the grassroots level and that is why his intention is to improve grassroots support. He doesn’t impose on his people, they have to tell him what they want. He may only advise on how things might work better in the future.

1:11:40 Because of his broad experiences, he is going to hold a workshop for new councillors on leadership and responsibility, how to listen and respond to things. He’s going to do this when he is chief or tribal chief again.

1:012:21 There are 15,000 people in Carrier Sekani, 22 occupied communities, and 14 bands.

1:13:08 He likes to work, he’s used to it. Ever since he was 14. He remembers when he ran away from the bus in September that was to take him back to school from Fort St. James. His dad told him if he was man enough to quit school he was man enough to work. That’s when he made up his mind to work.

1:14:09 Before Lejac he lived in Portage. He really enjoyed this life. They didn’t have anything fancy, even sweets were rare. Since 5, he remembers hanging around his dad who had a farm and would help him from 4 o’clock in the morning. He loved driving the horses to plow the garden. His dad taught him a lot about surviving in the bush and what not to touch and what to touch. His dad told him not to chop trees, if you need it, if it’s dry use it. His elders told him don’t touch anything you don’t need.

1:15:47 He was the youngest in the family. The next sibling to him was his brother Teddy who was about 2 years older. He got shot. He went on an island from Tachie to pick up his cheque from a guy who had a guiding outfit. This was just after Justa returned home from Dawson Creek after receiving a letter from Teddy asking him to come home to be with his aging parents. Teddy went out and didn’t come back, he was in his 20s.

1:17:42 Justa didn’t get to Lejac until he was 10 years old as his Dad didn’t want to send him. There was a guy - Lee Cochran, DIA – he and an RCMP member talked to his dad and told him Justa had to go. Most of his siblings went to school at Lejac for 1-2 years. Jimmy the eldest didn’t go to school at all. Bridget: By 7 most children were sent to school or had the church and cops after them. Mary: Maybe because Justa was a bit more isolated in his community he was left alone awhile longer. Justa was up in Portage and you could only get up by boat and if the water was rough you couldn’t get up at all.

1:19:08 Justa had a very good childhood. His mom and dad were both very gentle people. He was never hungry. He didn’t have fancy clothes like he’s got nowadays but he never went naked. He also had very good experience at Lejac compared to other people. He was the leader of the boys. He would lead them to class, or to the dinning room. That’s when his leadership started. The school principal and priest chose him to do that job and he got paid $1/week. Mary: also had a good experience at Lejac, although she was homesick and hungry. Justa was homesick during the first year as he didn’t know the language. He had to depend on his brother Teddy and other friends. After that he was fine. It didn’t bother him to go back. But in his fifth year, when he was going into grade 7, he was 14 and his brothers convinced him he didn’t have to go back so he didn’t.

1:21:40 He wonders If he did complete his school if he’d be another Indian lawyer running around. Justa always wanted to be in RCMP or join the army. In 1962 he went to Vancouver to enlist but wasn’t accepted because of a bad knee.

1:22:09 When he was working in P.G. Justa missed Tachie very much. So he would often get up early and work late – because if he was busy he was occupied and not so homesick for his family. He never appreciated living in a city much. For last 5 years, there had been talk about moving the CSTC tribal office to Stoney Creek or Vanderhoof but every time this was brought up there were some reasons why couldn’t move office: airport in PG and resource people in PG. Justa doesn’t agree and believes Vanderhoof to be the centre point for their people. City life doesn’t suit him. Bridget comments on how the house he shares with Archie in PG is very different than his home in Tachie.

1:24:48 Bridget: They will have to keep in touch. She asks him if he still wants a book written about him? She tells him to talk to Mary as a book changes your life a bit.

1:25:05 Mary: She says it does, but she likes to have more people getting these stories.
[Break in conversation due to stopping of tape recorder? Conversation resumes mid-sentence. Perhaps they are speaking of the watchmen?]

1:25:16 Justa: His auntie’s husband would check every house once and awhile. Sylvester Basil was an orphan who used to stay with Justa’s parents, but he always wanted to be mischievous and make home brew. His sisters didn’t like home brew and he didn’t like it, and they didn’t want to see their parents drink either... So these guys would chop up their tents. They never did answer them but used to be really scared of them. The church chief used to work together. Mary: Lazare is a Church chief now. Church chief’s look after the spiritual part of the people. Theresa: like a church leader. Justa – they talk in church about what is wrong and right and how to trust in the Lord.

1:27:02 Justa doesn’t drink at all now. He had too much in younger days. He had a couple of beers on the Easter Monday after his mom died. Before that it was 3 years ago. Prior to that he had been slowing down 5-6 years earlier maybe more. When he was chief and band manager and used to drink in the early 80s it got to him so badly he would bring a thermos of beer to the office. That was the only way he could keep us his energy. He came to realize it was harming him.

1:28:50 He used to receive many complaints as band manager. He kept daily diaries, where he would write down these complaints but identify the complainant. Bridget wanted him to dig them out. By winter Justa should know if he’s chief, tribal chief or nothing. He wants to share his abilities with all his people, not just this community. If he gets back in, he’s going to start a youth conference using the elders. Bridget: In society’s that have recovered it was the use of the elders that had done it.
1:30:40 Wendy Grant (Musqueum Band – Vice chief of BC) told him sad story up at Nakalak Lodge last summer, when they were talking about the future of how they were going to take over the DIA and self government. The story was about how her band and her community totally lost their culture…

1:31:11 End of tape mid sentence.

File consists of edited chapters two through six of "Justa."

File consists of edited chapters nineteen through to the Epilogue of "Justa" (third reprint, Oct. 16, 1994).

File consists of edited chapters from the introduction through to chapter one of "Justa."

File consists of edited chapters six through twelve of "Justa."

File consists of edited chapters thirteen through eighteen of "Justa."