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Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

Context: Recording is the continuation of earlier sessions by Bridget and Mary John talking about her life – appears to continue on from the other tape sessions numbered to #8 [Accession # 2008.3.1.211.4]

Side 1: “Mary John #9”
0’05” Bridget interviews Mary John and asks about Mary John’s grandmother who lived at the reserve at Fort George. Mary notes that her grandmother was sent back to Fort George and then to Stoney Creek after husband died. Her Grandmother remarried; she died in the 1950s. Mary talks about her grandmother’s marriage with Za (Jean) Paul – that was not an arranged marriage; her Grandmother “she had a hard life”

4’00” – 7’30” Mary Johns’ mother married Johnny Paul – not arranged; Mary notes that she was born in Fort George. Mary lived with her Grandmother Ann on reserve in Fort George. Mary then talks about her sister Bella – who married Mike Ketlo (sp?) and their children. She died of tuberculosis in the 1950s.

7’40” Bridget asks about the Mission School in Fort St. James – near the church “that is on Mission land” Which is where the village originally started. They talk about the church’s history briefly.

9’00”-14’00” Bridget asks Mary about her schooling at Lejac – Mary says they had reading, writing, arithmetic, penmanship and history. There was no science taught. Mary then describes the routine at Lejac. Doing chores and then breakfast at about 7:30 and then did cleaning chores in the dormitories. Then they attended their classes; then lunch, then played outside and then came back for sewing or embroidery, knitting and then back in classes until 4:00pm. Mary describes recreation – swimming, playing in the field, chores – pulling roots/stumps etc. Bridget talks about Joanne (Fiske?) thesis on the distinction between native boys and native girls’ activities and education at the residential school and that it enabled them to go to work in the hospitals and offices but that the farming education that was taught to the boys didn’t help them as there was no agriculture on the reserves. Mary notes she was ‘teachers pet’ as she had music lessons for singing. Mary notes she didn’t do anything in the kitchen but took mail to the post office and looking after the office for the Mother Superior. She feels she learned ‘the basics’ [but] then they ‘kicked you out at 16’

15’00” Bridget asks about the differences in disciplining methods of children – she notes that it is not part of Indian culture to spank children. She notes it is part of her husband’s sisters to discipline her children – not her or her husband’s duty

17’00” Mary talks about the residents at Stoney Creek who objected to school at Lejac because of harsh disciplinary methods used with their children

18’00” Mary talks briefly about the food at Lejac and speaks briefly to another unidentified woman [Sabrina?] in the room about food preparation [canning?]

19’50” Bridget asks about the Stoney Creek residents who wanted to have a school at the village in the 1950s and wanted their children to go to school there.

20’00” Mary speaks briefly about Father Coccola and that he did the negotiation about the move of the people from the reserve at Fort George to Shelley and about some compensation acquired by the residents. Bridget notes he ‘did not do a favour to the Indians’ – Mary notes that they were forced to leave ‘very illegal’

22’00” Mary speaks again about Father Coccola who could be ‘a very strict man’ but who took care of the people when they were sick and dying

23’00” Mary talks about another priest (unidentified) that she really liked who gave her a job c.1935 when she and her husband cleared land for Lejac and the priest treated them really well. She thinks he was from the Yukon as he had gold nuggets

25’00” Mary talks about her children going to Lejac in the 1950’s

26’00” Bridget talks about a social worker who came to Stoney Creek in c.1955 and Bridget was asked to come out by the Indian Agent to investigate what was the issue. This social worker was scared of being on the reserve; Mary thinks this woman had marital problems and drank a lot

28’00” Mary talks about the Day school operating c.1951 for a short time and the kids were bussed back and forth; other kids ‘orphans’ went to Lejac (lived there)

Tape is poor after this; noise with squeals and recording is faster

29’00” Mary talks about her children (Helen and the boys) not liking Lejac. She notes that one of the boys didn’t like it ‘but didn’t complain’ about it. She notes that ‘no one would talk about it’ “the whole village would be silent” when they left; and the children would be crying.

30’00”-33’00” Bridget asks Mary to discuss her wedding in more detail – Bridget notes that she already has on tape about the wedding night itself but asks for more information about the wedding day. Mary begins to talk about the wedding; there was a Mass, the guests and there was a band….

Tape is unintelligible after this; recording is broken up with interference and then there is no recording End of side 1

Side 2 “Mary John #10”
This side of the cassette has no recording

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary

00’05” Bridget is interviewing Mary John who discusses a potlatch held at Stoney Creek that Bridget attended. Bridget asks about the talking stick and she asks Mary John to explain its significance. Mary explains there had been a naming ceremony about a year ago and that a woman named Maisie had changed clans from her mother to her father’s clan. Mary notes while this is unusual, her father’s only son had died and therefore requested that the daughter changed clans. At this ‘September potlatch’ therefore this woman had to change tables at the potlatch.

04’00” Mary explains the context of the September Potlatch. She notes that Maisie had hosted this potlatch to pay back for the gifts that had been provided for her from a year ago when she received a new name. They then discuss the amount of money that the host gave to the guests and the amount of money that is normally provided – there is no particular amount ‘whatever you wish’ Mary notes she had provided Maisie with a gift last year of $100 but that Maisie gave her back $200 – that is not required – there is no required amount

07’30” Mary explains that at a potlatch you are expected to bring a case or few bags of food

08’00” Mary discusses the type of food provided at a potlatch; it is traditional food not western food; Bridget notes there was caribou provided there. Mary explains that the host of a potlatch asks people to hunt for moose and deer meat in order to prepare for the food to be served. Bridget then talks about the food that was served and Mary notes it included also fish and beaver.

11’00” Bridget asks Mary to talk about the gifts given to her daughter Flo at the potlatch in exchange for a loan she provided to another woman whose husband had died a year before. Bridget notes it was a ‘touching’ moment.

12’00” Mary talks about the Priest ‘Father Brian’ who was at the potlatch. Four clans collected money and gave it to the priest for his work [missionary work?]

15’07” Mary explains the situation of Geraldine Thomas –that at the potlatch she was not seated before; that is she was not initiated before and so she was seated at the potlatch

15’57” Tape stops momentarily

16’09” Mary continues to talk about Geraldine and the potlatch events; the significance of the tapping of the talking stick; then she was seated and guests give her gifts. Then Mary talks about Ernie and her late daughter Helen who also wanted to cross their clan but that Mary ‘did not let her go’

20’00” Mary talks about the feelings of a child who gives up their clan and that it is like ‘giving up one of your children’ as Celina noted to Bridget at the event.

21’00” Mary talks about her son Ernie who crossed over to his father’s clan and that he was gifted at the potlatch

22’00” Bridget then notes that at this potlatch that the Frog Clan became host of the Grouse clan at this potlatch. Mary explains that the clan then had debts to pay at this potlatch.

26’00” Mary talks about the death of Stoney Creek members; she is unsure when there will be another potlatch in Stoney Creek.

28’00” Bridget notes that she did not understand the ceremony as it was in Carrier language; however Bridget notes it is a pity the white world doesn’t see potlatches as they are ‘so touching’

31’00” Mary explains that each clan takes care of the deceased family members and takes care of putting up the headstone

32’00” Tape ends abruptly

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 01” Justa is talking about the Kemano II Project, which he states is a political issue, not an environmental one. He says the Project is a public issue now, not just a First Nations issue.

06’ 52” Moran asks Justa about when he was elected to tribal chief. He talks about the nominations process.

09’ 52” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 04” Moran is talking about book signings for Justa’s book.

00’ 27” Justa and Moran talk about board members for the Kemano II Project. They continue to talk about the Kemano II Project. Justa says the amount of pressure he is putting on the government, combined with public support, hopefully means Kemano II will be stopped. They continue to discuss the details and the politics surrounding the Project.

10’ 26” Moran asks Justa whether he was surprised or not when he lost the position of tribal chief at the last Assembly. He tells her he was not surprised. He talks about the first time he resigned from the position due to stress. He says the band knew he was tired, so did not want the position any longer. In a letter he wrote, he stated it was time for some new blood.

21’ 11” Moran asks Justa about his new position. He talks about being a contractor to Northwood Pulp and Timber where he liaisons between First Nations people and the company on employment concerns and tree sales. He talks about his position in more detail.

28’ 46” Moran asks Justa about how he feels about his life now. He tells her he feels good about what he has accomplished, but he needs a rest. He talks about his accomplishments throughout his career. He tells Moran he has no regrets about anything.

37’ 55” Moran asks Justa about his health issues and how he is feeling now.

38’ 57” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Moran is asking Justa about how he is feeling because he had a major heart attack. He talks about recovering from his attack in a week.

02’ 15” Moran asks Justa about what he thinks about the Gustafson Lake situation. He says he predicted it because the government has not been serious enough in negotiations for land claims. He does not believe in militant reactions and wants peaceful negotiations.

04’ 54” Moran asks Justa about what helped him get out of the ‘trench’ he was in after murdering his brother. He was able to carry on partly because he was forgiven by his family and the elders. He says the elders were the people who convinced him to plan for his future. He took their advice seriously, hence why he took on leadership roles.

07’ 15” Justa talks about taking a group of students to meet Gino (?), a hockey player. He says he wants to make things better for the young people because of alcohol and drugs, so believed the trip helped the students he took on the trip.

13’ 34” End of tape.

Item is a recording of an audio segment from CBC Radio in which a documentary update is provided on the inquest of Coreen Thomas.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content:

• Update on the case of deceased Coreen Gay Thomas
• July 3, 1976 Coreen Thomas is struck and killed by a car walking out to the Stoney Creek Reserve
• Police Report blamed Coreen for causing the accident saying that she was involved in a game of chicken
• The Driver of the car, Mr. Redekopp, had a high blood alcohol content but was not blamed for the crash
• Indians claimed that they were frequently harassed on the road by white motorists
• An inquest occurred and focused on relations between Indians and Whites
• Redekopp, coroner, police detachment, federal department of Indian affairs all seemed to be on trial
• Vanderhoof residents state media coverage is sensational with Vanderhoof unfairly labeled as “the most racially troubled town in Canada”
• Some see problem as due to lack of activities for young people in small communities
• Stoney Creek Indians live in intolerable conditions
• Interview with Stoney Creek Reserve resident regarding sanitation problems; lack of proper sewage system; cases of tuberculosis; high rate of unemployment; she states DIA should be responsible and should come up with a solution
• Problem with the perception of an alcoholic society;
• Archie Patrick, FN leader talks about the prejudice, harassment and racism found in Vanderhoof and other Northern communities towards Native People
• Good things could come out of this inquest – Vanderhoof residents should learn about poor living conditions at Stoney Creek
• Reporter provides update on the inquest; that local Police were accused of intimidating the witnesses
• Coreen Thomas’ death was unnatural but accidental
• Redekopp was negligible because vehicle was going too fast
• Segment of interview with Harry Rankin on the Thomas’ inquest; questions on the state of fairness of the inquest; and the state of white-native relations in northern BC
• Inquest Findings: Measures that should be put into place: Upgrade emergency system in the area, no person be placed in morgue before death certificate is in issue, get resident doctor for hospital, breathalyzers taken as soon as is legally permitted, RCMP officers be encouraged to have parent or guarding present when questioning young people as witnesses, Stoney Creek Band Council and Vanderhoof Council work to establish a Friendship Centre

Documentary ends with interview of Sophie Thomas on need for a change in white-native relations – and ends with excerpt of music from the Vanderhoof ‘pioneer’ song.

End of Tape

Audio recording consists of an interview conducted by Bridget Moran with Mary John.

Audiocassette Summary
Scope and Content: Tape consists of a recording of Bridget interviewing Mary John primarily about her visit to the former native village site of Cheslatta

Side 1
Interview in process

00’05” Bridget interviews Mary John, Mary is referring to Madeline her niece.

1’00” Bridget asks Mary what made her decide to go to Cheslatta – to see the site where she had lived. Bridget asks if it was a ‘rediscovery’ trip. Bridget asks if this is where the village was burned out and flooded out [by Kemano development] Mary talks about her son Ernie wanting to go there and create a territorial hunting ground. She talks about going there with her niece Madeline and Alex

8’40” Mary explains how they got to Cheslatta; the travel there was by van through Francois Lake and via logging roads; it took about hour and half drive

11’00” Mary explains it was not the village that had been flooded that they went to; not the original village; she notes there was a campsite set up for them but it was cold at night. There were people there from Stellaco, about 75 total. She describes making bannock on a stick over the fire ‘the real bannock’ for the youth – like an “Indian pizza” (she laughs)

16’00” Mary continues to talk about the activities that she did at Cheslatta; show the youth how to fish, spear fish, clean fish, cut in strips and smoke the fish. There was no smokehouse but they created a lean- to and smoked the fish. Mary also notes another day Mary and Madeline took the youth to the bush and talked to them about uses of trees –

22’00”-20’25” Mary describes the steps involved with showing the youth at the Cheslatta camp how to collect spruce in order to build a smoke house for smoking the fish

29’30” Mary discusses food that she prepared for the gathering for the people

31’00” Mary talks about the group visiting the old village Cheslatta after the gathering

Mary then leaves to attend to a crying baby [a great-grand-child?]; they greet the mother

33’00” Bridget refers to a group of kids she talked to at Kamloops about their book Stoney Creek Woman. Bridget tells Mary she has letters written to Mary John by several students who had read Bridget’s book that she wants to show her

36’00” They continue to talk about the former Cheslatta village and what the former village residents want to do about the village; Mary notes there are archaeologists working there. Mary states the people have not yet received compensation for being taken off their land. Bridget notes those people loss their sense of community

38’31” Mary remarks the people at Cheslatta “have a good chief” “very humble person”

39’40” Bridget asks Mary about the Lejac pilgrimage. Mary then talks about the pilgrimage that is held at Lejac and that she had just been there ‘on Sunday night’; she notes it is arranged by Celina; she notes there were Tache people there. Bridget asks if there are children buried at Lejac and Mary notes there are children and students buried there – about 15 to 20 buried there.

43’00” They briefly discuss if this was a rediscovery for the Cheslatta people at the event. Mary agrees; she notes she stayed there for 10 days; Bridget remarks it was similar to Mary’s former camp of what she had experienced at Wedgewood. They talk about Mary’s son Ernie and that he has in Bridget’s view ‘leadership qualities”

45’30” Bridget asks about getting a bannock recipe for a Senior’s cookbook. Mary begins to tell the recipe

Side 2
47’40” Mary continues to show Bridget how to make bannock

50’00” Mary briefly refers to the event at Cheslatta again

End of tape

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’10” Bridget Moran interviews Justa Monk. They discuss the ancestry of his last name and its original spelling, Monck. Moran wants to know more about Monk’s genealogy. She tells Justa his family history will be a chapter in the book.

08’ 45” Justa discusses how his ancestors move around on the land for hunting purposes. Moran wants to know more about gardens.

10’ 19” The interview returns to Justa’s family history, particularly the arranged marriage between his mother and father.

12’ 33” Moran asks about Justa’s immediate family. Justa talks about his brothers and sisters.

16’ 54” Justa talks about alcoholism with his brothers and sisters, and with other families.

20’ 10” Moran returns to asking about Justa’s brothers and sisters. Justa talks about one of his brothers being shot and killed; mentions the name of the man who killed his brother. Justa talks about his nephew getting shot by the RCMP.

27’ 54” Moran asks Justa about the relationship between him and his siblings. He talks about being the one who is reliable; has strong leadership skills, even though he is the youngest child.

30’ 50” Moran asks about Justa’s mother. She loved going to potlatches, did a lot of sewing. She was a very quiet and religious person. Justa’s father was the same, very outspoken. Justa tells Moran he is close to all of his brothers and sisters after she asks which he is closest. When Justa was 5 years old, he spent a lot of time with his father, where he learned to hunt by the age of 7.

34’ 20” Moran asks about Justa’s housing when he was growing up. He tells her his family had a large house, but there were no bedrooms, so they had different corners where they would sleep. They had a large garden outside of their home.

39’ 20” Justa talks about how isolated Portage was, so they had to grow their own food.

40’ 41” Moran asks about churches. Justa tells her there was a church and a priest came into Portage once in a while.

41’ 10” Moran asks about what Justa remembers about Christmas. He remembers getting dressed up and going to church to sing hymns.

43’ 02” Moran asks Justa which of his brothers and sisters went to school. Justa says his sisters were not punished or abused. His brothers enjoyed school. His brothers and sisters were not allowed to speak their language, and this was their only disappointment. Justa talks about his experiences at school; he quit school and tried to get a job.

50’ 24” Moran asks about when Justa moved from Portage to Tachie.

52’ 34” Moran asks about Justa trying to get a job at such a young age. He got a job with his brothers at a sawmill in Fort St. James.

55’ 33” Justa says he was born in 1943. Moran asks about when he met Theresa, his wife. They began their common-law relationship in 1966.

57’ 13” Moran asks about how long Justa was in jail. He served 9 months and was released on parole.

1:02’ 53” Justa talks about being unemployed and broke. Theresa came to visit him at camp where she stayed for 6 or 7 months. He talks about getting married later on in their relationship. Moran asks about where Theresa is from. Theresa is from Tachie but he did not know her growing up. Moran asks about Theresa’s background.

1:08’27” Justa talks about his many girlfriends, partying, and being a womanizer. Theresa and him got ‘serious’ after she had their daughter.

1:11’ 24” Moran ends the interview. She tells Justa they will change the pace for the next interview by discussing land claims. Moran asks Justa about running for chief. He lost the first time he ran.

1:14’28” Moran asks Justa about Kemano. Back in 1948, Kemano I was created. The Indian Agent came to the reserves for signatures so the Kemano project could go ahead. Justa says the people did not have time to move their things when the flooding began. People were misled with regards to what the Kemano project was about. People on the reserves were moved to Grassy Plains – they were spread out, not the same community as they were. In 1982, First Nations people began to fight back against Kemano II. Justa was a district chief.

1:24’ 48” Justa discusses the need for an environmental assessment for the Kemano project. The case to the Supreme Court and are currently waiting for the decision. The provincial government claims there is no need for environmental assessment and are planning to go forward with the project. Justa discusses the commission and the Kemano case, in general.

1:30’ 07” End of tape.

Item is a recorded audio interview with Justa Monk.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 10” Justa talks about getting together a memorandum of understanding regarding boundaries for fishing grounds. Justa has also been discussing land claims with the provincial government. He talks about setting up the future for the younger generation. He says a fair land claim settlement would be the granting of traditional grounds.

5’ 27” Moran asks about the Save The River campaign.

6’ 14” Moran inquires about the diaries Justa is supposed to bring her. Justa wants to talk about his childhood. He feels his youth was better than the youth of today because they are given everything.

11’ 06” Moran asks about Justa’s life in Portage and to describe a day he remembers from his time there before going to residential school. He talks about not being allowed out after dark and being respectful of other people’s property. He discusses being disciplined by talking about what was right and wrong.

15’ 15” Justa talks about his time in residential school and how he was not allowed to speak his native language. He was shocked by the corporal punishment. Moran and Justa discuss about putting this in the book or not. He talks about not having any privacy in the residential school.

21’ 55” They return to discussing the personal details of Justa’s life in Portage, such as eating porridge for breakfast. Moran and Justa discuss fishing and hunting, and the times of the year he would be away from home.

27’ 55” Moran asks Justa about a day at the residential school. He talks about how he refused to buy a Bible. He participated in sports in his second year. He talks about the food and having to take cod liver oil. He talks about being a hockey player. He talks about the time he broke his leg at the residential school.

37’ 51” Moran asks Justa about which of his sisters would be willing to talk to her. They begin to talk about Justa’s philandering and how he had a lot of fun during that time. He talks about cheating on Theresa, but they stayed together. They continue to talk about his sex life. He talks about his relationship with Theresa. He talks about his daughter, Sharon.

47’ 00” Moran wants to talk about the trauma of John, his brother who was murdered. He tells Moran that was the time he started to turn his life around. They talk about his time in jail.

48’ 18” Moran starts the interview with Theresa, Justa’s wife. Moran asks Theresa about her personal details. She talks about her family past. She got married to get away from her parents, who were her adoptive parents.

52’ 40” Moran asks Theresa about going to residential school and how her parents would not allow it because they wanted to teach other responsibilities. Theresa talks about how some of her responsibilities were hunting beavers.

59’ 30” Theresa starts talking about how she found out she was adopted. She discusses her real brothers and sisters and how several of them passed away from tuberculosis. She talks about how she is close to her adoptive mother. Theresa does not know why she was adopted out.

1:05” 57” Moran asks Theresa about residential school. Theresa says she could not speak English, so was punished for speaking her native language. She says there was no corporal punishment against her. She talks about getting tuberculosis and getting transferred to a hospital where she stayed for eighteen months. She learned how to speak English while at the hospital.

1: 14’ 57” Theresa talks about getting married at the age of 18 in 1948. Theresa gets tuberculosis again in 1956, so was placed in a sanatorium. She returns to talking about her former husband and how he treated her poorly. He was sent to jail for about two years for assaulting Theresa.

1: 26’ 50” Theresa talks about how difficult it was to obtain money for her and the children.

1: 27’ 54” Moran asks about how she met Justa. She says she always liked him and thought he looked cute. She began to go out with Justa in the 1960s. She moved to Dawson Creek to be with Justa when he was released from jail.

1:33’ 35” End of tape.

Item is a audio interview recorded by Bridget Moran with Justa Monk's family members.

Audiocassette Summary

00’ 05” Moran is talking to Justa’s sister, Adelle. She says the old way of life is better than life today. They talk about the lack of gardens in Tachie today.

02’ 45” Adelle talks about the family history, particularly her father. She talks about their way of life when they were children. Adelle continues to talk about her past.

08’ 40” Adelle talks about the residential school and how she was upset she was when she was sent there. She talks about being punished for speaking their native language. She was at the residential school until the age of sixteen.

12’ 13” Moran asks Adelle about what she remembers about fishing. She talks about the process of fishing.

13’ 22” Adelle talks about her individual history. She talks about not getting married at all because she could not marry the man she wanted. She talks about getting tuberculosis and being in the hospital for a year. When she was released from the hospital, she moved in with a man who was abusive towards her. She talks about leaving him and moving to Prince George, eventually.

18’ 56” Adelle talks about how it was beneficial that her parents were strict. She continues to talk about her childhood, particularly Christmas.

24’ 36” Moran and Adelle talk about when Justa killed his brother. Adelle tells Moran that Justa looked after his brother’s children after he was released from prison.

26’ 08” Moran asks Adelle about whether she drank or not. Adelle says when she moved to Prince George she began to drink heavily.

27’ 35” Moran asks Theresa about the time her and Justa got married. Adelle tells Moran that Justa was the baby of the family and how his siblings ‘babied’ him, hence why his mother was so upset when he married Theresa.

31’ 00” Interview changes to Theresa’s mother. Theresa’s mother speaks in her native language most of the time and Theresa translates. They talk about her past, particularly where and when she was born. They talk about how many families lived in Tachie.

40’ 13” Moran asks about whether Theresa’s mother went to Fort St. James often before the road was built. When they went to Fort St. James, by horse, they would buy some groceries.

43’ 04” They continue to talk about Theresa’s mother’s past.

47’ 33” Moran interviews Jimmy, Justa’s brother. She begins by asking him with the road being built. He tells her life was better in the old days because it was cheaper.

50’ 10” Moran asks about the family history. Jimmy lists the siblings from oldest to youngest.

52’ 05” Jimmy tells Moran that he did not go to the residential school because his grandfather would not let him. Jimmy needed to work for the family because he was the oldest. He talks about everything being done by hand.

58’ 00” Moran asks Jimmy about the type of house that his parents lived in when he was born. He talks about his childhood and his way of life. He talks about helping building a house with his father that had no rooms.

1: 02” 53” Moran asks Jimmy when he got married. Jimmy talks about his wife’s family, particularly his father-in-law, who Justa was named after.

1: 04’ 58” Moran asks Jimmy his memories about living in Portage. He tells her he was a bad kid. He also talks about the trips he took to the surrounding areas. He tells her it was a hard life, but there were good things.

1:10’ 35” Moran asks Jimmy about any memories he has of Justa as a kid. Jimmy tells her that even as a kid, Justa was pretty smart. Jimmy would take him to collect hay. Justa was called the baby and was spoiled too much.

1: 13’ 09” Moran asks Jimmy where he was when Justa got in trouble with his brother. Jimmy said he had a feeling something bad was going to happen, so decided to go home. He talks about when he was told about the murder. Moran continues to ask about the situation, but Jimmy tells her he is still not sure what happened between Justa and John.

1:25’ 03” Jimmy talks about making his store bigger at the pressure of Indian Affiars, but it was too much to keep operating, so now there is only a store that sells junk food.

1:28’ 47” Jimmy talks about the loss of two of his children. He continues to discuss his children.

1: 34’ 36” End of tape.